Charis & Alex Gut Ep 2
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Alex: [00:00:00] you hear people say eczema psoriasis, that there's a [00:00:05] connection. Is that true and, how? Why is my gut like coming up on my [00:00:10] skin?
[00:00:15]
Charis: Welcome back to the Harness Your Health podcast. I am back today [00:00:20] for part two of our gut series with Alex, who is a nutrition [00:00:25] student, and we are gonna be diving into intestinal permeability [00:00:30] and/or leaky gut. Those terms are really synonymous. A lot of times online you're [00:00:35] gonna hear the term leaky gut.
Intestinal permeability is really the [00:00:40] more of the technical term that we use in medicine or in [00:00:45] research. But I really wanna go back and just remind you why we have [00:00:50] broken these different episodes down into three different episodes. It's really to [00:00:55] zoom out and look at the digestive tract in a little bit different way.
I feel [00:01:00] like I don't really hear it described or discussed this way, and we wanted [00:01:05] to highlight these three parts of the digestive tract so that people can be [00:01:10] thinking about them in their own gut health because this is such a hot topic. [00:01:15] People are talking about gut health and have been for many years, but I think so many [00:01:20] people are still confused.
They don't really understand the different parts of [00:01:25] it, and so this is the whole reason that I wanted to do this series. So, Welcome back, [00:01:30] Alex.
Alex: Thank you. I'm excited I think Gut health is taught to people [00:01:35] online with a solution. I think companies that have a solution and [00:01:40] people are like, "I don't even know if I have this problem."
But maybe I do. 'Cause I have, These symptoms and then [00:01:45] the true meaning and like true science behind it gets lost in like the social media [00:01:50] world.
Charis: There's people who have other kinds of symptoms, like skin symptoms or [00:01:55] mood symptoms or brain fog or things like that, and they might not know how [00:02:00] connected their gut is to those symptoms. And really any condition or disease [00:02:05] which we're gonna talk about today can be traced back to the gut.
And so [00:02:10] that's why the gut is the starting point for where we always think about [00:02:15] supporting this part of our health to influence the rest of our health. I just [00:02:20] feel like people are like I'm taking a probiotic," or, "I'm taking something for my [00:02:25] heartburn," or, "I want to decrease my bloating."
And those are all great things, but they're [00:02:30] not necessarily thinking about the whole big picture of the gut and all the different things [00:02:35] that they need to think about. And so that's the whole reason that I wanted to put this series [00:02:40] out. And then just to remember that the body is intimately connected, and that's [00:02:45] why you can have those symptoms that maybe don't seem like they're related to the gut, but they really [00:02:50] are
As I mentioned today, we are really gonna talk about the [00:02:55] barrier that keeps things out of our body and how that [00:03:00] is designed and how it breaks down and becomes dysfunctional. Because last [00:03:05] week we talked about digestion and the process of digestion, and if you have [00:03:10] digestive symptoms, a lot of people wanna know how to fix their digestion, but [00:03:15] they don't always realize that this barrier that we have in our gut [00:03:20] is one of the most important ways that we keep things out, and [00:03:25] it's also how we help to absorb nutrients, which is what we [00:03:30] talked about last week.
And so it really is the unsung hero, [00:03:35] if you will, I think that most people aren't even really thinking about. And so there's a [00:03:40] lot that can go into it with the barrier but again, we're gonna try and make it [00:03:45] simple so that people can really think about it in a different way and hopefully [00:03:50] take some sort of action in your life that will improve your gut [00:03:55] health.
Alex: Yeah the barrier's what, one cell thick- ... and how I guess [00:04:00] fragile but also strong it can be.
Charis: Yeah.
Alex: [00:04:05] Absolutely. And, your decisions, your habits influence, if that barrier is strong [00:04:10] or if it's weak.
Charis: Exactly. And I think the other thing I wanted to mention, 'cause I think this is [00:04:15] confusing for people too, if you have leaky gut , it doesn't mean that your [00:04:20] entire intestines, your small and your large intestine, are completely leaky [00:04:25] and letting everything through. That's not true.
It's likely that you have [00:04:30] breakdown in one or more areas, and so it depends on where the breakdown [00:04:35] is too because in your small intestine from the beginning to the end, those [00:04:40] parts have different jobs. And so you can see how if you have breakdown in the [00:04:45] early part of your small intestine, which is where absorption of nutrients happens, you're not gonna get the [00:04:50] nutrients in that you need.
And so if you w- have breakdown in your large [00:04:55] intestine, which is where largely where your microbiome is, then that's gonna have a huge [00:05:00] influence on everything. And we're gonna dive into the microbiome in the third episode. [00:05:05] But there's no way to know really where your breakdown is. The [00:05:10] point isn't that.
The point is just to think about how is my barrier and [00:05:15] how are the symptoms that I'm feeling could be related to leaky gut, and what can I do [00:05:20] about it? That's really the take-home here. And this really isn't a priority [00:05:25] order. We didn't do digestion first because it's more important than the barrier, and [00:05:30] we're not doing barrier second because it's more important than the microbiome.
They're all equally [00:05:35] important, and many people could argue that you could focus on one [00:05:40] of those things at a time and make some traction in your gut health, and I would say that [00:05:45] is probably true for a lot of people. But there are some people who really [00:05:50] need to focus on the whole big picture, too.
And so just don't get discouraged [00:05:55] if you are focusing on one area and not really seeing the results that you want. You need to [00:06:00] think about each section that we're going over in this series.
Alex: In the digestion [00:06:05] series or the whole overview, nervous system, hormone, circadian [00:06:10] health series?
Charis: Yeah. I think that too.
As soon as we add more things into it, [00:06:15] people tend to get confused. So just start with the gut series. Hopefully you [00:06:20] listened to the overview episode, which came out before the digestion episode. And [00:06:25] if you haven't, I would go back and listen to that, because that really tries to make [00:06:30] it less complex and help you understand how the body is so intimately [00:06:35] connected and how your gut is connected to your hormones, to your [00:06:40] neurotransmitters, to your mood, to your immune system.
Literally [00:06:45] everything is connected together. And so today we're gonna talk about the barrier and [00:06:50] leaky gut. And so you can think about that for yourself, too
Alex: Yeah, perfect.
Charis: Let's talk [00:06:55] about , what the barrier actually is, and, there's gonna be pe- people who listen to [00:07:00] this that say that this might be oversimplified, but it really is two things. It has two [00:07:05] jobs. It's one main job is to be a physical barrier, like [00:07:10] we've described, to the outside world. And so if you're thinking about that when [00:07:15] you ingest food and it goes into your stomach and then goes into your small intestine [00:07:20] and large intestine, until it's absorbed, which is in the small intestine for the most [00:07:25] part, you, those things in that food are not, they're really outside [00:07:30] of your body, right?
And this is like a premise that a lot of people just "Whoa, that's crazy," [00:07:35] but that it really is the truth. And so the barrier is really to keep [00:07:40] anything out of your body that we don't want in. So many people think [00:07:45] about food poisoning, but it could be any pathogen, anything that's in our water, in [00:07:50] our food that you're taking in.
Your body doesn't want that, those [00:07:55] harmful things in the body. So the whole goal of the barrier is to keep those things [00:08:00] out. And then the second part of the barrier is to also let this good stuff in, [00:08:05] the nutrients, the water the things that we need in our diet. And so [00:08:10] remember back to nutrients, I know I've talked about before, obviously vitamins and minerals are very [00:08:15] important, but we break fats down into fatty acids.
We break proteins down into amino [00:08:20] acids. We need to absorb those through the barrier and so that we have them [00:08:25] for use in the body.
Alex: So if You have leaky gut and you eat [00:08:30] something, that has a foodborne pathogen, right? If you have leaky gut [00:08:35] or if you don't, are you at the same odds of getting food poisoning?
[00:08:40] What's the difference between eating something with a healthy gut that's, [00:08:45] contaminated and then eating something with a leaky gut that's contaminated?
Charis: Yeah. So that's a great [00:08:50] question, and I don't know of really any known research of anybody who's [00:08:55] actually looked into this, studied to see if someone has l- leaky gut or a group of people [00:09:00] have leaky gut and then if they are introduced to some sort of pathogen, which is [00:09:05] r- basically what food poisoning is, there's pathogens in your food that [00:09:10] then are in- getting into your body and what the result of that is.
That would be a really [00:09:15] cool study. I don't know that exists. It might.
Alex: I don't know if that'd be ethical.
Charis: Yeah. [00:09:20] Exactly. But I would say that, if you think about the process of the barrier, [00:09:25] so let's d- talk about the barrier a little bit specifically. You mentioned it was one cell [00:09:30] layer thick.
That is absolutely true, and then it also has this mucus [00:09:35] lining basically that's like lining the inside of the barrier. So in the small intestine, [00:09:40] the mucus is a little bit more sparse, if you will, because the small intestine doesn't [00:09:45] have a ton of commensal bacteria. But in the large intestine, that's where our [00:09:50] microbiome is, and we have a ton of commensal bacteria, or hopefully we do, that a [00:09:55] lot of them live in that mucosal barrier.
So think of the mucosa as like [00:10:00] attraction for things that we want to come in and then also repelling things [00:10:05] that we don't want to come in. So if you have a healthy intestinal [00:10:10] lining with no leaky gut and then you eat something that has a pathogen in it, like food [00:10:15] that was undercooked or old or something like that those [00:10:20] pathogens would get absorbed by the intestinal cells in the mucus lining.
They would [00:10:25] attack the pathogen, recognize it, and then it never would get into your body. [00:10:30] If you have leaky gut, then you might have breakdown. It probably is just [00:10:35] random if that pathogen is in the right spot where you have leaky gut. But [00:10:40] you can see if you have leaky gut, then you have an increased chance.
I [00:10:45] think that's a pretty fair assumption to make that you could have a higher chance of having food [00:10:50] poisoning. I have- ... someone that I know that has had periods in their life where they've [00:10:55] had a lot of repeat food poisoning. And to me- ... that just [00:11:00] screams leaky gut. Your barrier's broken down.
You're constantly, reacting to [00:11:05] things, and your immune system, remember, has different parts of it, so it's [00:11:10] specific parts and then nonspecific. And that nonspecific is really that first alarm stage [00:11:15] where it's like, sees something, turns up the inflammation, which brings all the [00:11:20] cells in to kill whatever it is to keep it out of your body.
That's what we want to happen. [00:11:25] And we don't want it to be this big alarm signal every time. We just want it to be [00:11:30] natural. These cells live in your mucus layer of your gut. It just eats things [00:11:35] we don't even know, right? That's the goal.
So just to think about [00:11:40] what these cells are like, they are one cell layer thick, and so they literally are [00:11:45] meant to be, like, super tight together, the cells. And so there's [00:11:50] proteins that hold the cells together, and then you have the mucus layer over the top.
[00:11:55] And so the whole goal is to not have that part disrupted, [00:12:00] but it can definitely get disrupted, and we're gonna talk about that in a little bit of how that [00:12:05] happens. But that, that's what leaky gut really is , the breakdown. [00:12:10] Let's think about sugar. Sugar is implicated by a lot of people to [00:12:15] promote leaky gut.
Or even if it's harmful seed oils, fats that [00:12:20] are, like, inflammatory or maybe they were cooked or heated, and so they're very inflammatory [00:12:25] in the body, and that's disruptive to the leaky gut barrier. It's not like [00:12:30] one time you eat that and it just destroys your mucus layer and your [00:12:35] cells.
It's really the repeated action and the consistent action of that happening [00:12:40] or many different things that are gonna promote inflammation and [00:12:45] breakdown of that mucus layer.
Alex: And that Mucus layer, can it shift from leaky gut [00:12:50] and can it like heal itself based on what I'm eating or [00:12:55] if I have leaky gut that's gonna s- be something I'm gonna, deal with for the rest of my life.
Charis: You [00:13:00] absolutely can heal leaky gut. And so this is, I think, a [00:13:05] con- I don't know. I was gonna say controversy. That's probably not the right word, but like [00:13:10] disagreement maybe in like health professionals who help people with this type of [00:13:15] work with healing leaky gut or supporting people with their gut health is [00:13:20] many people will say you have to be very strict with your diet.
You have to take out all the, [00:13:25] quote, unquote, bad stuff. You have to take out the things that bodies typically react [00:13:30] to, any food sensitivity. And then there's a lot of people who feel like that's [00:13:35] not necessarily true. Yes, you should probably eat like mostly whole foods, like [00:13:40] quote, unquote, clean diet, but that your stress is highly implicated [00:13:45] in leaky gut and that there's other lifestyle type things that you can [00:13:50] do.
I think the answer probably falls somewhere in between, and I think that [00:13:55] as a starting point you don't necessarily have to go super [00:14:00] strict, but you should definitely be looking at your diet, I tell people like [00:14:05] if you're gonna put the time and energy and focus into working [00:14:10] on this, then you might as well maximize your chances of improving your [00:14:15] gut health, right?
So if you were a person that's eating McDonald's every day [00:14:20] or eating those inflammatory seed oils or something like that and you literally just change [00:14:25] that, let's say you just exchange the inflammatory seed oils to some other kind of healthier [00:14:30] fat, that is going to take that fuel off the fire in [00:14:35] your gut, which is really just promoting further inflammation. It's [00:14:40] promoting your body to try and go in and clean things up and figure out what's happening. We don't [00:14:45] want that. You don't wanna be working against your body. So the goal is to take some [00:14:50] of the insult off and then see what happens.
When I've worked with [00:14:55] clients with this, I really have liked to start with a few things and just [00:15:00] see how you respond. Some people respond very quickly. Their symptoms reverse very [00:15:05] quickly, and that's good information for us to know Your body didn't need a [00:15:10] ton. It just needed a little bit of relief from those things that was causing a lot of [00:15:15] stress.
Alex: Yeah, so you said seed oils. What other things cause that stress?
Charis: [00:15:20] There's so many different things. So just think of it as the total [00:15:25] cumulative insults to what's happening.
If you are taking [00:15:30] a lot of medications, if you're eating a lot of processed food, which includes [00:15:35] sugar, it includes those inflammatory seed oils like we talked about, especially if they're [00:15:40] heated. There's other things in food, processed food, like emulsifiers and other [00:15:45] ingredients that can really be hard on your gut barrier. If the food that you're eating [00:15:50] or the things you're ingesting don't have a use in your body, [00:15:55] like microplastics, right? Or an emulsifier, which is like some [00:16:00] ingredient that your body doesn't need and can't use, it just has to process that and get rid of [00:16:05] it.
And so it's so much extra work and energy for your body to do that. And so maybe [00:16:10] one thing at a time, let's just say everything you're putting into your body [00:16:15] is good, but you are taking a lot of medication. Let's just say [00:16:20] NSAIDs or different meds like that can be really hard on your mucosal barrier.
That [00:16:25] in itself over time can cause leaky gut. But when you start to [00:16:30] add some of the other things, the stress, the food-related things [00:16:35] herbicides, pesticides, things, chemicals like that are in our food, alcohol, [00:16:40] like it just adds more fuel to the fire. So I don't want anyone listening to [00:16:45] this to be like, "Oh no, I'm taking all of those things in," or, "I know that all of those things are [00:16:50] coming into my body, I'm doomed," or, "I have no chance," or whatever.
I would just [00:16:55] say if you really want to start small, start with one thing, just [00:17:00] start with looking at packages of food and taking the emulsifiers out [00:17:05] or the seed oils, replacing your seed oils. Something like that is like a very [00:17:10] actionable thing you can do that can help to lower the [00:17:15] burden on the body
Alex: yeah, I think taking Advil, is [00:17:20] so normal now.
I think that is just a drug that [00:17:25] people might not think is the drug that you're talking about because it's just so [00:17:30] normalized. So when people say eat something when you take it, Why is that? If I was gonna take an [00:17:35] Advil, if I really needed to, I think, obviously the first step would be like, why are you taking two [00:17:40] Advil a day?
Yeah. But then like, the next step is like, if I really needed it, how could [00:17:45] I take it and still support my body in, processing it [00:17:50] and not creating that disruption in my gut?
Charis: Yeah. the food likely [00:17:55] buffers the medicine from your stomach, [00:18:00] which also has a mucosal layer, and we're not really talking about that today because it's set [00:18:05] up, a little bit different than your intestines from a cell standpoint.
[00:18:10] But, people who have chronic NSAID use and are taking it on an empty [00:18:15] stomach, can literally get gastritis, which is inflammation of your stomach, because it does [00:18:20] burn through the mucosal layer and breaks down that tissue, and so you [00:18:25] can get little ulcers that you can see on a scope.
And so it can do the [00:18:30] same thing in your small intestine, in your large intestine. And so the [00:18:35] food piece is just that some people don't have the symptom of feeling bad [00:18:40] when they take the Advil on an empty stomach. So that's probably [00:18:45] just something to think about there. I'm not sure that it really makes a difference action-wise of [00:18:50] the food.
It's probably still harmful. And so you're right when you say, there's a [00:18:55] difference between someone who takes NSAIDs all day long to someone who takes them [00:19:00] once a day to someone who just takes them very intermittently. Intermittent is [00:19:05] likely fine. Now, again, every person has a little bit different setup.
If [00:19:10] you have leaky gut anyway, and you have, your terrain is set up [00:19:15] to be dysfunctional, then those NSAIDs aren't really helping you at all. [00:19:20] And so thinking about what you can do instead of NSAIDs, which obviously isn't in the scope [00:19:25] of this episode. I'm glad you brought it up because it is really important to think about, [00:19:30] and it is something that you could take out that is, you could see how it might [00:19:35] affect your symptoms if you're having symptoms.
Alex: Yeah, I think that, taking [00:19:40] out or being more aware of Advil use is a little bit easier than checking [00:19:45] everything you're eating with seed oils, and I think seed oils could be a whole episode in and of [00:19:50] itself 'cause I definitely think there's a lot of opinions coming from, a bunch of different places with that.
I don't really [00:19:55] eat seed oils, but sometimes it's exhausting and then, you feel guilty if you do eat the seed [00:20:00] oils and then... being aware of things that- I could probably do without versus [00:20:05] being out, it's July 4th and like they're using seed oils.
Like which one if I had [00:20:10] control, and I don't wanna stress myself out too much, but like, you know, I could probably, [00:20:15] solve this headache with some water. I'm not gonna not eat, the burger 'cause, or [00:20:20] whatever, 'cause it was made with canola oil, yeah. So like I think that is important for like me to [00:20:25] distinguish, what's in my control, what is also in my control but like is more stressful [00:20:30] to me- in any like given time.
Charis: Yeah, it's a- always about what you [00:20:35] can control and what you can't control, and also really thinking about you can't [00:20:40] necessarily control the seed oil in a ... You're at a barbecue on 4th of July, [00:20:45] We just recorded this right after 4th of July. That's why we're thinking about 4th of July.
But if you were [00:20:50] cooking at home or you're hosting something at home, you can control that, right? And so [00:20:55] just don't beat yourself up about it. Just think about what things you can control [00:21:00] and can't control. And if you're eating out every single day, then your exposure to [00:21:05] those things is likely much greater than- if you weren't. And so [00:21:10] it's really not to get stressed about it, but just to take it step [00:21:15] by step and think about the things that you can control.
Alex: So is there an actual [00:21:20] test for leaky gut
Charis: There really isn't. So there definitely are some [00:21:25] markers that doctors run where you can look at different things, like obviously nonspecific [00:21:30] immune markers, like inflammatory markers can tell you if you have inflammation in your [00:21:35] body.
That's like a good indicator to, keep it in mind. That doesn't [00:21:40] diagnose you with leaky gut or make, someone wouldn't say, "Oh, just because your CRP [00:21:45] is high, then that means you have leaky gut." But I think the thing to think about [00:21:50] there is if you are suffering from whole body inflammation, you likely have some [00:21:55] sort of leaky gut because remember back to what we talked about before, your body has let things [00:22:00] in.
Your immune system is on high alert. Why is that happening? The only way that things [00:22:05] get into our body is through our mouth, through our lungs, through our skin if your skin is [00:22:10] broken. Those are the main ones. And you have to think about how the barrier has been broken [00:22:15] down and how things have gotten in.
And so there are stool tests that test a protein [00:22:20] called zonulin, and zonulin is really the protein that was discovered [00:22:25] that keeps those tight junctions of those cells locked together, and when [00:22:30] your zonulin is high on these tests, it's an indication that you have leaky gut. But [00:22:35] again, it's not like a diagnosed thing.
It's literally just information [00:22:40] that you're collecting all this data, and it's pointing you in that direction. I think anybody who [00:22:45] has digestive symptoms, anybody who has any sort of symptom like we talked about [00:22:50] before, skin issues, potentially mood things brain function [00:22:55] type symptoms obviously autoimmune disease, which we can talk about a little bit if [00:23:00] you want.
But Any of those things, you likely have [00:23:05] some sort of leaky gut. And so it's not, again, like not to [00:23:10] panic about that, but like you mentioned before and we haven't talked about this yet, but you can [00:23:15] heal from leaky gut. You can repair your gut
Alex: And are you talking like, you know, years [00:23:20] of a compromised barrier before something like autoimmune shows up?
Or can that move [00:23:25] quicker?
Charis: Yeah. I think in general, yes, it likely takes [00:23:30] years. There's really the thought with autoimmunity that you have some sort of [00:23:35] genetic predisposition. You have leaky gut, which allows things into [00:23:40] your bloodstream basically, and then you have some sort of big stressor.
Those are [00:23:45] usually the kind of trifecta of things that set up autoimmune disease. And [00:23:50] also, if you think about it, people who have autoimmune disease are much more likely to have a second [00:23:55] autoimmune disease. So if your autoimmune disease is not in remission or [00:24:00] under control, then you have a much higher likelihood, and that is because of the leaky gut.[00:24:05]
That's not always the case, obviously, but we do see it quite a bit where people have more than [00:24:10] one type of autoimmune disease. And so it gets tricky 'cause people are like how [00:24:15] come I have rheumatoid arthritis but my friend has [00:24:20] Hashimoto's thyroiditis," which are two different types of autoimmune diseases or conditions.
[00:24:25] And the answer to that is because you're different. You're an individual, everybody's [00:24:30] terrain is different. Everybody's exposure throughout their life is different. Obviously, you have different parents than [00:24:35] your friends. You have a different genetics. But it's so much less about genetics and much more about [00:24:40] the environmental things throughout your whole life.
What has your diet been like your whole life? What has your stress [00:24:45] been like your whole life? What has your exposures to things been like your whole life? Were you born [00:24:50] C-section? Were you born vaginally? Those things all affect your gut, your [00:24:55] microbiome and if your gut is leaky or not.
Alex: What about like, sisters [00:25:00] or, siblings? Let's say my older sister had an autoimmune disease- ... does that [00:25:05] mean I'm gonna get it?
Charis: No, absolutely not. So we should do a whole [00:25:10] episode on epigenetics- ... so that we can help people understand that. But obviously, if it's a [00:25:15] sister that you have the exact same parents, then you likely share some genes that are the [00:25:20] same.
But you are, again, an individual. Maybe you were born C-section and [00:25:25] your sister was born vaginally. Maybe your parents lived in a different house [00:25:30] than when you were born versus when your sister was born. That's different exposure to [00:25:35] different things that you're...
or in your environment, right? Maybe your [00:25:40] mom fed you differently if you were the younger sister than your older sister and [00:25:45] so you eat differently. I know that's definitely the case with my kids. My kids... I learned [00:25:50] a lot more by the time I had my second kid- And I was feeding him differently than I [00:25:55] fed my first kid.
That's just the way that it is. And so your exposures are different, right? [00:26:00] And so there is no guarantee that you'll have the same thing. You might have a little bit higher [00:26:05] chance, but certainly if you focus on your lifestyle, including your [00:26:10] diet, you can absolutely avoid getting autoimmune diseases.[00:26:15]
And, there's probably people who would say for some people that's not 100% true, [00:26:20] and that's probably correct. There's a small percentage of people that maybe [00:26:25] cannot avoid certain things, but for the large majority of people, this is [00:26:30] like a lifestyle issue, and it was set up by lifestyle [00:26:35] habits and influences.
And it... You can put your autoimmunity in [00:26:40] remission. I have Hashimoto's. It's been in remission for seven years now. I haven't had [00:26:45] high antibodies on any of my blood tests. And so even though I still technically [00:26:50] have it- I don't have it, if you will.
Alex: If someone's eating [00:26:55] clean but still has digestive symptoms- could that still be related to leaky gut?
Charis: [00:27:00] Absolutely. So just because you're eating a, quote-unquote, "clean diet," and [00:27:05] this happens all the time, and I think there's also the message out on the [00:27:10] internet that you just change your diet and everything fixes itself. And I [00:27:15] would like to think that's true, and for some people that may be the case, but that's not [00:27:20] the case for every person.
Because if you think about how long these things take [00:27:25] to develop, we're, we know that hormonal influences, other different [00:27:30] things in our body like we've talked about in previous episodes take decades to develop, like [00:27:35] insulin resistance, for example anything with the brain. All the neurodege- [00:27:40] degenerative diseases take decades and decades to develop.
And so it's [00:27:45] probably not any different for leaky gut. Like I said before, it's not just [00:27:50] one thing that caused leaky gut. Now, if you have a lot more insults, then it's gonna happen a little bit [00:27:55] quicker. We do see kids with autoimmune disease with different things, and so that was [00:28:00] likely set up more quickly.
But if you have digestive symptoms, [00:28:05] I would go back and listen to the digestive episode because you [00:28:10] really need to understand your digestive process and why it is [00:28:15] functioning well or not functioning well. It's not separate from leaky gut, but it really [00:28:20] is very important. Like someone might say can I just take a supplement [00:28:25] to improve my leaky gut?"
Or, I wanna take bone broth [00:28:30] capsules or something like that, to get the nutrients to help heal my leaky gut." And so [00:28:35] yes, you can do that. It's gonna help, but if you're pouring the fuel on the fire still, [00:28:40] it's gonna be really hard for your body to overcome that.
The answer to your question [00:28:45] is it is pretty individual, and why you have a lot of control. This whole [00:28:50] podcast is called Harness Your Health because you can take this information [00:28:55] and make changes and implement things that will affect your body, and that's all [00:29:00] you really need to worry about.
Alex: So it sounds like if I had leaky gut, or [00:29:05] symptoms like that, it's more important to take out than [00:29:10] add to my diet. If I'm, drinking the collagen and bone broth and I'm, taking [00:29:15] four Advil every four hours and, seed oils and gluten and all [00:29:20] that stuff all at the same time i'm just irritating myself even more if I take [00:29:25] supplements or whatever.
Charis: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So I would [00:29:30] say for most people, I really do like people to add things in as [00:29:35] well as maybe taking some things out. It just s- depends so much on the person, [00:29:40] because you are an individual, and what works for you may [00:29:45] not work for your sister or your friend or something like that.
And so you really need to [00:29:50] think about what's going on with your own diet and your own lifestyle factors, and what [00:29:55] maybe do you need to remove, but also what can you add in? Because the truth is that the [00:30:00] supplement or the drinking the bone broth is likely not gonna just fix it if you're eating [00:30:05] McDonald's every single day or if you're taking NSAIDs continuously.
That's [00:30:10] gonna really not support you. And like I was saying earlier, you want your [00:30:15] outcome to be good, so the focus is to work on this and get this improved [00:30:20] so that you can just go and live a moderate lifestyle life and not have to [00:30:25] be stressed about, always feeling terrible, having these symptoms having a [00:30:30] leaky gut.
Alex: So how can I nourish the gut, or how can we nourish the gut?
Charis: [00:30:35] That is a great question, 'cause we've talked about a lot of things that break the gut down, right? And I [00:30:40] think that's... A lot of people are thinking of it that way. But I do always like to think [00:30:45] about what can I bring in that would help support my body also.
And so that, that's such a great [00:30:50] question. I would say one of the biggest things that comes to my mind is something like [00:30:55] bone broth, and this is- everybody knows about... maybe everybody doesn't know about bone broth, but [00:31:00] I think a lot of people are aware of it. It's sold in stores now.
There's [00:31:05] lots of people talking about it online. And really, that is for a couple things in bone broth. [00:31:10] Bone broth has a lot of collagen in it, and it h- also has a lot of glutamine in it. And [00:31:15] glutamine is just an amino acid that really helps maintain [00:31:20] the tight junctions in your gut barrier, and also heal them.
And so [00:31:25] bone broth is just thought of as super nourishing to the gut. There's people that actually drink [00:31:30] bone broth in the morning or any time during the day just as, some way to get [00:31:35] those nutrients into your body. Another thing that's very typically thought of [00:31:40] as healing or nourishing is fermented foods.
So fermented [00:31:45] foods really have that active bacteria that your gut microbiome will feed on, [00:31:50] and we're gonna be talking about the microbiome here as we finish this episode, and it's just the perfect [00:31:55] segue into our last episode, which is about the microbiome, because the leaky [00:32:00] gut and the microbiome are just intimately connected.
Another thing would be fibers. [00:32:05] So we will go way more into this in the next episode, but this is [00:32:10] why we're told to eat 25 grams of fiber a day. I actually heard yesterday [00:32:15] that this recommendation is probably gonna be going up to more 30 to 40 [00:32:20] grams of fiber a day, which to me feels a little bit [00:32:25] scary because a lot of people are barely getting any fiber.
And so I think we really have [00:32:30] to think about the actionable ways that can happen. But that is a reality for your [00:32:35] gut barrier, is that those cells need fibers for their fuel. [00:32:40] Minerals. A lot of people don't think about minerals in this capacity, but minerals [00:32:45] are really like spark plugs to your cells, so they are involved in a lot of [00:32:50] biochemical processes that help with energy creation, which is essentially [00:32:55] metabolism, and those cells in your gut lining, you can imagine, work [00:33:00] very hard, and they definitely produce a lot of energy.
So minerals are key [00:33:05] here. The other two things I was gonna say are really more about [00:33:10] how you're eating. So remember the stress connection with everything [00:33:15] in your digestive tract. Also here with leaky gut, stress can definitely [00:33:20] contribute to leaky gut. And promote it. And so if you're eating in a sympathetic [00:33:25] state all the time on the go, it's gonna affect your gut lining. There's no question [00:33:30] about it. And then also go back to that first episode that we did, the last episode, [00:33:35] about digestion. Think about your digestive process because if you are [00:33:40] not digesting protein very well, for example, and that protein, those [00:33:45] undigested protein particles get into your small intestine and your large intestine, your gut [00:33:50] bacteria doesn't really know what to do with those.
And so it does try and break them down, [00:33:55] and that is a very inflammatory process, and so that can be really hard on the gut barrier, [00:34:00] too
Alex: and you hear people say things like [00:34:05] eczema psoriasis, that there's a connection. Is that true and, how? [00:34:10] Why is my gut like coming up on my skin?
Charis: Yeah, absolutely. [00:34:15] You'll hear a lot of naturopaths, functional medicine doctors, people who are trained in this way to [00:34:20] look at the body as being intimately connected and not just separate systems [00:34:25] talk about this, about how any systemic symptom can be traced back to [00:34:30] the gut. Socrates said all disease begins in the gut, right?
So [00:34:35] really what this is talking about is three things. I think most people are [00:34:40] thinking of it as leaky gut and also the microbiome, which are very intimately connected [00:34:45] here. But you also have to think about your digestion, as I just mentioned. [00:34:50] But really what people are talking about is dysbiosis, and so we're gonna [00:34:55] talk about that a lot more next week when we talk about the microbiome.
But essentially, dysbiosis [00:35:00] is an overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria in your gut that [00:35:05] normally live there, but they just get overgrown. And so you want to have [00:35:10] all of the good guys or the keystone species in much more abundance [00:35:15] and diversity than these pathogenic bacteria. So the pathogenic bacteria overgrow, [00:35:20] and they can cause lots of problems, and many of them are gram-negative [00:35:25] bacteria.
And so where this comes in with leaky gut is that if you have things [00:35:30] disrupting your gut barrier, breaking through that mucosal lining, breaking through the [00:35:35] one cell layer thick, that is a entry into your bloodstream, right? And [00:35:40] so then if you have dysbiosis, those bacteria, the membranes [00:35:45] have a compound called LPS, which is this [00:35:50] lipopolysaccharide.
And those leak in through the gut barrier into your [00:35:55] bloodstream, and when those get into your bloodstream, it puts your immune system on much [00:36:00] higher alert. And so this is why it can be hard for people to [00:36:05] understand that maybe that process doesn't lead to headaches in [00:36:10] every person, but it might lead to skin issues in some people, headaches in [00:36:15] other people.
Joint pain is another really common thing that we see, [00:36:20] and that can be a little bit hard to understand. But this is back to the whole [00:36:25] premise of your body is like a terrain, and we all have different [00:36:30] exposures throughout our entire life from when we're in the womb until however old you are [00:36:35] today.
And so you have to think of it that way when you think about what your [00:36:40] body needs for support. Many people just have always had skin [00:36:45] issues or maybe their skin is just sensitive and they get more acne or [00:36:50] breakouts or they tend to have little sc- Skin things. I have a little patch of eczema on my [00:36:55] arm, and when I, am on vacation or maybe drinking a little bit more alcohol [00:37:00] or something, that little patch will flare up.
That's just my thing, and so [00:37:05] it's... A lot of it is about awareness for what is really going on and listening to your body, like we've [00:37:10] talked about a lot. But this is one of the biggest things that I want people to [00:37:15] take away from this episode, is this connection with your entire body. And [00:37:20] so the gut is always looked at the focal or the starting point, and we always [00:37:25] want to ensure that these three parts of the gut, how I'm setting this up, [00:37:30] digestion, gut bar- barrier integrity, and the microbiome are [00:37:35] supported, and that will in turn support any other condition, any other [00:37:40] symptom that you're struggling with.
And so I think that is a perfect segue into our next [00:37:45] episode about the microbiome that is going to finish this kind of gut [00:37:50] series, if you will. And I think that you are just gonna be [00:37:55] so amazed at what you hear. Every time I do research, every time I talk to experts, [00:38:00] I just learn more and more, and
I'm just amazed at how this [00:38:05] really discovery of the microbiome, which has happened fairly recently, that [00:38:10] is- ... really gonna change our life. It already has in many ways, and things that you [00:38:15] may not even realize. But medicine is gonna change in the next 10 or 20 [00:38:20] years when we're thinking about the microbiome.
So I'm excited for that. Yeah. Cool. I'm [00:38:25] excited too. So make sure you join us for that episode, and we'll see you next time. Thanks [00:38:30] for being here.
The information shared on this podcast is for educational and [00:38:35] informational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. I am not a [00:38:40] medical doctor, and this content is not intended to diagnose, treat, [00:38:45] cure, or prevent any disease. Please consult with a qualified healthcare professional [00:38:50] before making any decisions related to your health, especially if you have a medical condition or [00:38:55] are taking medications
