Charis & Alex Gut Ep 3
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Charis: [00:00:00] she had really good diversity. She had a lot of different organisms on her [00:00:05] test, but she just didn't have great abundance. They were all very low normal, [00:00:10] very low levels, Below average for almost every single one.
[00:00:15]
Charis: Welcome [00:00:20] back to the Harness Your Health podcast. I am here with my friend [00:00:25] and nutrition student, Alex. Again, thank you for being here, Alex.
Alex: Of [00:00:30] course.
Charis: And I just wanna summarize for you where this [00:00:35] episode is landing because this is really episode three in our [00:00:40] three-part series about the gut.
And so we started with digestion. Digestion [00:00:45] was the first episode and talking about the digestive process and why that matters. [00:00:50] And if you have any digestive symptoms or really any symptom, I would like [00:00:55] to think you can go back and listen to that episode and you will get some great insight [00:01:00] into your own digestive process and how you can support it.
And then in the [00:01:05] last episode or the second episode, we talked about intestinal permeability or leaky [00:01:10] gut and how we want your gut to have nice tight junctions that [00:01:15] keep the barrier between your food and everything in your GI tract [00:01:20] separate from the rest of your body and your bloodstream. And so if you haven't listened to that [00:01:25] episode, I would go back and listen to that, too.
I just wanna maybe mention here that these [00:01:30] episodes are not in a specific order. They're in the order in my mind [00:01:35] that I think about things, but, they aren't necessarily in a sequential order.
[00:01:40] But you do need to think about all the different parts because they are very [00:01:45] interrelated and you can pick things in different parts of your [00:01:50] body or your GI tract to focus on and maybe where you might need some help and [00:01:55] support. So just remember that you're an individual. Your body is designed the [00:02:00] same as mine, but we have different exposures.
We obviously have different genetics. [00:02:05] Through our whole life we've had been exposed to different things. And so my body might [00:02:10] have skin issues as my, symptom that I'm constantly managing, [00:02:15] whereas your symptoms might be more GI related. Maybe it's bloating or maybe you have [00:02:20] constipation, and these can actually be from the same [00:02:25] problem, from the same breakdown or the same disruption in your [00:02:30] microbiome or in your gut.
And so that's why we always start with the gut and we [00:02:35] think about the gut as the priority really for healing your body.
Alex: [00:02:40] Yeah, I think starting with the gut, what do you do every day? You eat. It's almost [00:02:45] intuitively makes sense 'cause that's something that you have control over. It's just So [00:02:50] simple, but makes such a huge difference.
Charis: Yeah, for sure. [00:02:55] I think where people have the ah-ha moment with this, and where I definitely did, [00:03:00] is, we're definitely not taught to think about the body this way. We're taught in our [00:03:05] culture, in our medical system, our healthcare system, to think about the body in parts, [00:03:10] that it's all separate and that it doesn't necessarily connect all together.
And [00:03:15] that's just how medicine trains our practitioners to look at the body. And so in [00:03:20] some circumstances, that is really beneficial, right? If you need a surgery, [00:03:25] yes, your doctor needs to operate on your intestines. They need to know what they're doing. They need to be [00:03:30] a specialist in that area. That is, a good outlier for what we're [00:03:35] talking about.
But for the rest of your physiology and a lot of the [00:03:40] symptoms that people are struggling with today it can be anything from brain and mood symptoms, [00:03:45] skin symptoms, autoimmunity anything digestive-related obviously, [00:03:50] all of those things are connected with how your body is connected.
And [00:03:55] so if you've ever been to your, regular conventional doctor and [00:04:00] been advised to take some sort of medication for something as the solution [00:04:05] and that didn't feel right to you or that you also saw a different type of practitioner [00:04:10] that was more integrative in their focus and they didn't even talk about that [00:04:15] medication, they talked about your gut and your nervous system and some of these other [00:04:20] priority things for your body for healing, then you will [00:04:25] be able to put these things together.
So this episode is really about the microbiome, [00:04:30] and we are gonna talk about what that is. I think many people at this point have heard of it [00:04:35] and do know.
We're gonna talk about the microbiome in your large intestine. You do [00:04:40] have a microbiome on your skin, in your mouth. Women have it in their vagina. We [00:04:45] know this now, and we're not gonna go into that today b- 'cause this episode is really [00:04:50] focused on the GI tract. And this really is these trillions of [00:04:55] bacteria and fungi and some viruses, and honestly some parasites [00:05:00] too that are considered normal flora or helper parasites in the [00:05:05] gut are a huge part of your body.
Really most [00:05:10] experts say that it's more cells than your actual cells in your human body if [00:05:15] you separated it out, which is crazy to think about, right? It's trillions [00:05:20] and trillions of cells. So when we call the microbiome gut [00:05:25] bacteria, that really undersells it. It's not just gut bacteria. The [00:05:30] microbiome is not one single organism.
It really is many different kinds of [00:05:35] organisms, and it's really not in one uniform pattern. If you look at people [00:05:40] who live in Europe or Asia or any part of the country that's different than [00:05:45] you, they are likely gonna have a different microbiome just from their exposure, the things [00:05:50] they eat, the way they live their life.
But the most important thing to think about with the [00:05:55] microbiome, a healthy and robust microbiome is abundant, which [00:06:00] just means that you have lots and lots of good, healthy keystone or [00:06:05] commensal bacteria, those are like what we call the good guys, and that [00:06:10] you have very diverse strains of bacteria in your [00:06:15] gut.
You want to have a lot of them, and you want to have a lot of different [00:06:20] kinds. So that's the goal
Alex: What I've been learning is that, you could eat [00:06:25] apples, you could eat four apples every day of the week.
But what would make a bigger difference [00:06:30] in your microbiome is eating, maybe one apple and then a pepper and [00:06:35] then, different kind of good bacteria so that it's diverse. And I never realized [00:06:40] how important diversity was, and obviously abundance [00:06:45] too.
'Cause I feel like a lot of people fall into the hole of eating the same thing all the [00:06:50] time, when really maybe I should, pick this vegetable that I like I'm not used to [00:06:55] eating all the time.
Charis: Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad you brought this up, because this [00:07:00] is something I see very often in my practice and just in talking to [00:07:05] people, is we do tend to eat the same things over and over because it's [00:07:10] easier, and we like those things, right?
We tend to eat the things that we enjoy eating or that tastes [00:07:15] good to us. And so most people don't have super diverse intake [00:07:20] in their food really for vegetables and fruits. So that's one of my favorite things to do, [00:07:25] is to encourage people to go to the grocery store and every week pick [00:07:30] something new that you haven't eaten before.
Or maybe you've eaten it before, you grew up with it as a [00:07:35] kid, and you're like, "Ooh, I don't really like that," and then you try it again, and you prepare it [00:07:40] differently or really do a little research on, like, how to cook something or how to [00:07:45] use it in your food or in your meals. And you will be [00:07:50] shocked at how things can change drastically.
My favorite example of this is [00:07:55] zucchini. So I grew up eating mushy zucchini, like many people, [00:08:00] and I hated it. I was like, "I'll never eat squash. I just don't like it." [00:08:05] And I don't know where it came from or what happened, but I think [00:08:10] I cut a zucchini one time and I just ate it raw. And I was like, "Wow, this [00:08:15] is actually good.
It's a little bit sweet. It's crunchy." And then I thought I [00:08:20] wonder if you don't overcook it, if you just saute it in a little bit of oil and some garlic or [00:08:25] something what does it taste like?" It is absolutely delicious. So that is just [00:08:30] a perfect example of being, a little bit more open-minded to [00:08:35] things eating more diverse things.
And you just hit the nail on the head. The [00:08:40] diversity piece, it's not just y- the food... All food is made up of [00:08:45] all different kinds of components. No food is exactly like the [00:08:50] other. A pepper is not like an apple. They have differing things in them that make them [00:08:55] beneficial to you and your body, and so that's why eating a wide [00:09:00] variety of foods is really important.
So I just wanna give an example to [00:09:05] this of a real-life example. So I use a microbiome test in my [00:09:10] practice where I test so a lot of people know about stool tests like GI map [00:09:15] or Genova stool tests.
This is a test that is actually just looking at your [00:09:20] microbiome, and that is a very simplistic way of explaining it. But I love using [00:09:25] this test because it is so much more robust, if you will, [00:09:30] than other GI tests like I just described. And so I just ran this test on a [00:09:35] client of mine, and this is such a perfect example.
So she has been having [00:09:40] some GI symptoms, but also a lot of systemic symptoms. And if you don't know why [00:09:45] this is related, go back and listen to episode two about your intestinal barrier. But [00:09:50] she's been having a lot of headaches. She's been having a lot of fatigue, so some kind of generalized [00:09:55] symptoms, too.
And when we got her test back, she had really good diversity. [00:10:00] She had a lot of different organisms on her test, but she just didn't have great [00:10:05] abundance. They were all very low normal, very low levels and [00:10:10] it said below average, below normal. I forget what the term actually is. I think it's average [00:10:15] on the test, but it was below that for almost [00:10:20] every single one.
And so that's just a perfect example. So she has a good [00:10:25] diversity, and she's probably eating diverse amount of foods. We have worked together for years, and this is one [00:10:30] of the things that I work on with people. But it's just for whatever reason, her [00:10:35] total amount, her abundance was low.
Alex: And would that, the [00:10:40] solution to that be eating more, or is there something that's killing the [00:10:45] microbiome?
Charis: So really you have to think of it in both ways. So she has cycled probiotics for years [00:10:50] and so that has probably helped her to just have enough [00:10:55] bacteria to, maintain a specific amount of health.
She came [00:11:00] to me with really bad IBS and that is basically resolved. She doesn't have any [00:11:05] issues with it anymore. And so we have made a lot of progress, but you're right that [00:11:10] it probably is something that is disrupting her microbiome. So for her specifically, [00:11:15] it's likely an environmental issue or issues.
It could be anything [00:11:20] in her food or her water that she's drinking, so you have to always think about toxins and [00:11:25] things that can be harmful to the microbiome. Also, she has taken over-the-counter [00:11:30] medications like Tylenol and Advil more recently for some things she's been dealing with, her [00:11:35] headaches, some other medications which can be disruptive to the microbiome and her [00:11:40] gut like we talked about last week.
Also foods, things like [00:11:45] Alcohol processed foods, like inflammatory type foods. Like she doesn't have a lot of that [00:11:50] in her diet, but there's some. And then you also have to think about [00:11:55] stress. So her health has been a stressor for her, and so that is definitely [00:12:00] a contributor to all of this.
And then the other part that a lot of [00:12:05] people don't always think about is she's in perimenopause, and in [00:12:10] perimenopause our estrogen usually declines or we have very erratic [00:12:15] estrogen. And your estrogen is really tied to almost every cell in your body. You [00:12:20] have an estrogen receptor on almost every cell in your body.
In her case [00:12:25] specifically, like we have seen a change in her digestive function. We have seen a [00:12:30] change in what is most likely her having some leaky gut. And then [00:12:35] we saw with this microbiome test that she just doesn't have the abundance that she needs. [00:12:40] And so it's never really one thing, it's oftentimes many factors, [00:12:45] but that gives us some strategies to work on and layer in over [00:12:50] time, and so that we can support her from kind of this holistic perspective
Alex: [00:12:55] So what are the functions of the microbiome?
Charis: Yeah, so that's a [00:13:00] great great question. When we're thinking about the microbiome, we want it to be abundant and diverse, [00:13:05] and really what we're talking about is what we call these keystone or commensal [00:13:10] species of bacteria. So these are really the good guys. We want, pages and [00:13:15] pages of these on a test or when you're thinking about what these different strains are.
[00:13:20] You want lots of them. And what they're doing is they are [00:13:25] supporting and nourishing its own environment. So these [00:13:30] bacteria, especially the good guys that we're talking about right now, they ferment [00:13:35] fiber and break it down and make short-chain fatty acids, and these [00:13:40] short-chain fatty acids are things like butyrate, which many people have heard of, [00:13:45] Propionate and acetate are some other examples. The butyrate [00:13:50] that is made is actually the fuel for the cells in your GI [00:13:55] tract. And so if you think about it, like when the food is coming through at this point, [00:14:00] it's not food anymore, right? It's in your large intestine.
It's [00:14:05] mostly all the nutrients are pulled out. It's really just kind of the excess waste. Any [00:14:10] fiber that doesn't get broken down is gonna end up here. Your microbiome [00:14:15] sits in that mucosal layer of your GI tract, and that bacteria [00:14:20] feed on these fibers and other things. And we're gonna talk about [00:14:25] dysfunction, too, but we can just focus on what's supposed to happen.
The fiber [00:14:30] feeds the bacteria produce short-chain fatty acids, and then the short-chain fatty acids are the [00:14:35] fuel for the cells in your GI tract. So think about it that way, as like a sequential [00:14:40] process. And butyrate does so many different things. One [00:14:45] thing that people often don't think about is it really helps regulate [00:14:50] inflammation.
So remember from last week that a lot of your immune cells are in your [00:14:55] microbiome, in your intestinal lining, and this is for a good reason, [00:15:00] right? We don't want pathogens coming in through our food. But the reality is, [00:15:05] is that things do come in through our food. So we want our immune system to be targeting these things, but [00:15:10] we don't want this to be overactive, and we don't want it to be [00:15:15] inflammatory.
The reality is that there are lots of things all the things that we've already [00:15:20] mentioned, that do promote inflammation. Or I always like to think of those things as [00:15:25] more pro-inflammatory versus anti-inflammatory. And so butyrate, if [00:15:30] you have healthy levels of butyrate helps to regulate inflammation.
So it helps [00:15:35] to keep things under control. It's not just a local gut nutrient. It does this [00:15:40] actually systemically, too. And so that's a huge part of [00:15:45] the function of the microbiome. It also synthesizes some vitamins. Specifically [00:15:50] vitamin K2, some different B vitamins. I already talked about the immune system, but it just keeps that [00:15:55] immune system from overacting or underacting. When we see underactive [00:16:00] immune system, it's usually when there's been a lot of dysfunction and pathogenic [00:16:05] activity in the large intestine or small intestine that's been there for a long [00:16:10] time, and then the immune cells just aren't as robust.
Your body just literally can't [00:16:15] keep up and keep creating the same army when it's constantly been on [00:16:20] alert and broken down. So we usually see that kind of down the line but butyrate is just [00:16:25] a really potent anti-inflammatory and so we really want [00:16:30] optimal butyrate function. Really, you should be eating fibers with every single [00:16:35] time you eat.
I know that might sound a little crazy, especially if you aren't eating a lot of fiber [00:16:40] but don't, you don't have to jump to that all at once. Starting with just one [00:16:45] meal, picking one meal to focus on like I would say a lot of times people don't eat a [00:16:50] lot of fiber with their breakfast and so if they're focusing heavily on protein, which is [00:16:55] what a lot of people are talking about now, just figure out y- how you can bring in 5 to 10 [00:17:00] grams of fiber into your breakfast and that way you have more of that steady supply [00:17:05] of butyrate from the bacteria that are creating it
Alex: If you [00:17:10] had to, put it in one sentence, like, why we should care about those, [00:17:15] 'cause there's also Akkermansia. I know you talked about that in a episode a couple episodes [00:17:20] ago, and that's hot right now. Obviously these have anti-inflammatory effects, but, [00:17:25] like, why should we care about these, like, all these little, things that you're talking about that [00:17:30] probably don't make a lot of sense to the average listener?
That is [00:17:35] very biochemistry heavy, and for someone that- Yeah ... was never a a, biochemistry [00:17:40] person, it like, it kind of overwhelms me sometimes. I'm like, whoa.
Charis: That's fair. And, it's [00:17:45] really helpful to think about even if you understand the biochemistry. It's really helpful to think about [00:17:50] things in a way that you can understand.
So analogy would be really good here. [00:17:55] I really like to think about the neighborhood an- analogy for the microbiome, and so I would [00:18:00] explain it like this. So we haven't really talked about pathogenic bacteria, but I'll [00:18:05] just mention it here. You have a lot of commensal or keystone species, [00:18:10] but you do have pathogenic bacteria that normally live in your microbiome also.[00:18:15]
And so the goal is to not let those pathogenic bacteria [00:18:20] overgrow. So think about it in this way with the analogy of the neighborhood. You have a [00:18:25] big neighborhood. So I'm thinking of a neighborhood, I live outside of Denver, like the Central Park [00:18:30] neighborhood in Denver, which is a huge neighborhood, okay?
And it happens to [00:18:35] actually be a very diverse neighborhood from the standpoint of there's all people, different kinds of [00:18:40] people, younger people, older people, families, a lot of different races and [00:18:45] economic classes that live in this neighborhood. So it is a really great example. This [00:18:50] neighborhood has a lot of commensal or keystone things going [00:18:55] for it, right?
And then there probably is a few people that live in that neighborhood [00:19:00] that are maybe a little bit rogue, a little bit of an outlier, maybe someone [00:19:05] who stirs the pot a little bit, right? Those would be, like, your pathogenic bacteria. [00:19:10] But those people just do their own thing. Maybe they don't cause a lot of problems [00:19:15] because you have, let's say we'll call the police- like the [00:19:20] microbiome, and so the bacteria or the microbiome are like your police or [00:19:25] even you could think of it like bouncers, right? Bouncers aren't going in and plucking people out of [00:19:30] nightclubs or whatever. They're basically just standing there with their big presence at the [00:19:35] door, and you know that if things get out of hand, that they're gonna intervene, right?
And so [00:19:40] the microbiome is really just this... It- it's feeding itself. [00:19:45] It wants to support itself and its own ecosystem, but it also, its [00:19:50] job is to support the body. And so just from a singular [00:19:55] standpoint of thinking about the gut, it's feeding the cells in the gut.
Most people eat three times a [00:20:00] day. Some people eat more than that, some people eat less, but let's just focus on three times a day. That's [00:20:05] three times a day that food is moving through your GI tract. That takes a ton of [00:20:10] energy, and that energy is partially coming from these cells that are [00:20:15] fueled by the other food that you ate.
And so these cells have to create energy. They need certain [00:20:20] substrates to do that. And so part of the reason that we feed our [00:20:25] body is for energy, but people don't often think of it that way. They think of it for their exercise [00:20:30] or just to get through their day. They're not necessarily thinking it for these functions, but [00:20:35] these are the functions that are happening in your GI tract.
So hopefully that [00:20:40] answers your question and it makes it not so ch- Yeah ... chemistry [00:20:45] related.
Alex: Yeah, that definitely does. I don't naturally have like a, a chemistry brain. I have to [00:20:50] like work towards that.
Charis: That's fair. Yeah, there's a lot of people in that, in that group I [00:20:55] would say. We've set the stage for what your microbiome should look like. We want it [00:21:00] abundant, we want it diverse, and we want those cells to be able to create a lot of [00:21:05] energy, to have the substrates they need to keep you digesting. I [00:21:10] would say another thing maybe to just point out here in connection with a couple of other episodes I've [00:21:15] done, I did an episode with Desiree Reed about the hair tissue mineral analysis [00:21:20] test and why minerals are so important.
And when I started using this test in my [00:21:25] practice, I brought it in for some of my clients who had pretty severe [00:21:30] constipation. And we had done a lot of work to get things functioning [00:21:35] properly, but it was really the minerals that came into play here [00:21:40] and in the proper balance that made all the difference for these people.
I'm [00:21:45] talking about a difference of being able to go off all of your supplements and- ... all of your [00:21:50] things that you're doing to keep your GI tract moving because remember, the [00:21:55] constipation that these women suffered from in the beginning was horrible. And [00:22:00] so it's really important to think about, the microbiome is important, but it's [00:22:05] also important to think about like what these cells need to function, and so that's where [00:22:10] this mineral part comes in.
And I know we talked about, in the last episode we [00:22:15] talked about things that are really nourishing to the GI tract. So if you missed that, definitely go [00:22:20] back and think about that. And you mentioned Akkermansia. I love that you brought that up. That [00:22:25] is a specific strain of bacteria that's in your microbiome that is [00:22:30] thought to do tremendous things to keep your gut barrier [00:22:35] integrity stable.
It's very nourishing to your mucosa and all [00:22:40] of your microbiome, all of the cells. There's just a lot of new elementary [00:22:45] research about that. So if you haven't listened to the GLP-1 [00:22:50] episode I did, we talked about that and the connection with Akkermansia. That's probably the one place [00:22:55] I think that we really dive into it a lot more.
I think we should move on and just [00:23:00] bring up the estrobolome because this is something that a lot of people don't even know what [00:23:05] it is. And have you heard of this before, Alex?
Alex: Maybe in [00:23:10] passing.
Charis: Yeah. So I think maybe some women have heard of it [00:23:15] before, but it's definitely not something that a lot of people know what it is.
So [00:23:20] essentially, all your sex hormones, and I'm talking about testosterone, [00:23:25] estrogen, and progesterone, are all y- you know, the body uses them. [00:23:30] Your liver starts to break down the hormone after it's used. It's [00:23:35] broken into metabolites, and then it's escorted to your stool to get [00:23:40] pooped out essentially.
That's what you want to happen. And so there [00:23:45] are a whole series of gut bacteria in your GI [00:23:50] tract that are a part of the microbiome that are considered the estrobolome, and they have [00:23:55] the genetic capability to break down those hormone [00:24:00] byproducts. And so this is a really good thing. They go through the liver first, and then they get to the GI [00:24:05] tract, and we want them broken down.
We don't want them to go back into circulation. [00:24:10] This is how you can get estrogen dominance. This is how you can get other [00:24:15] recycled estrogens, and it can just be a pro-inflammatory process in the [00:24:20] body and not the sequence of how things are s- meant to work. The estrobolome [00:24:25] is just super, super important for that.
I would say, if you're [00:24:30] thinking about this and you're like I don't know if this is me," if you have any [00:24:35] gut symptoms whatsoever, you should think about this, especially if you have [00:24:40] constipation because if you're constipated, then anything that's in [00:24:45] your stool that you want to get out of your body could have a chance to be [00:24:50] recycled.
And so that's just something else to think about. Dysbiosis is in [00:24:55] huge play here because if your gut microbiome is imbalanced and you don't have enough of the [00:25:00] good guys, you're not gonna have the ability to break these hormones down
Alex: Does that [00:25:05] come from excess estrogen or gut dysfunction, or a little bit of [00:25:10] both?
Charis: So you can definitely have excess estrogen.
I'm not gonna go into the [00:25:15] details of this right now, but there are a lot of things that are in our [00:25:20] environment that look like estrogen in the body. So plastics there's a lot of chemicals in [00:25:25] beauty products and things that look like estrogen in the body, so they compete for [00:25:30] binding sites in the body, and that makes your circulating [00:25:35] estrogen higher.
Because if you think about it, if your body is just the one regulating your [00:25:40] estrogen is made by, mostly by your ovaries, then that, those loops and [00:25:45] feedback mechanisms are happening as they're supposed to be. But if you're [00:25:50] using beauty products that have a lot of synthetic chemicals in them that kind of look [00:25:55] like estrogen, that can raise what it looks like as you're circulating [00:26:00] estrogen.
Yes, that is a problem, but really what we're talking about in this episode is [00:26:05] also the breakdown of estrogen. And so even if you didn't have any [00:26:10] excess in your environment to these things that look like estrogen [00:26:15] to your body, you want to be able to break down your normal estrogen, right?
It's not a [00:26:20] priority for your body. That is underneath, like, nervous system [00:26:25] regulation and insulin regulation and blood sugar regulation, and that's [00:26:30] what kind of dictates the regulation of your sex hormones. I'm gonna do a whole [00:26:35] episode on this to help people understand and pull this together. But [00:26:40] really you want your sex hormones to be fluctuating as they should.
[00:26:45] So for men, that's more constant. For women, it goes in a cycle, [00:26:50] usually like a monthly cycle. And so we want that process to be [00:26:55] functioning properly, and a big part of that process is the breakdown of the [00:27:00] estrogen and progesterone and testosterone, but also the metabolites from those [00:27:05] hormones, and escorting them out of your body.
So you wanna think of [00:27:10] it somewhat as a what's you're exposed to, but also if you [00:27:15] literally just focused on trying to support the bacteria in your [00:27:20] microbiome that can help to break these down, that's a great starting point.
Alex: That was my [00:27:25] next question. So it sounds like fiber can help this estrogen, get [00:27:30] out at an appropriate time.
Charis: Yeah, exactly. So fiber, remember, is the [00:27:35] substrate that the bacteria use to make those short-chain fatty acids. But also this [00:27:40] goes back to the diversity piece. If you're only eating apples, like your example, and you [00:27:45] just ate apples and that's the only fruit you ate, or you literally just ate broccoli [00:27:50] as the only vegetable you ate, having a better diversity is gonna have [00:27:55] different foods for your microbiome which will support different species.
So you [00:28:00] want a lot of different species, and you want these specific bacteria [00:28:05] species that are gonna help break down estrogen.
Alex: Wow, that's interesting. I [00:28:10] never realized estrogen really had any type of, role in my digestion.
Charis: [00:28:15] Yeah. It absolutely does. It's pretty cool. We should also talk about the [00:28:20] connection with metabolism. A lot of people don't think about this and it's [00:28:25] definitely something that is, I would say can be a game [00:28:30] changer for a lot of people. And just to back up a little bit, when people think about [00:28:35] metabolism, they're often thinking about weight control or weight loss, right?
This is, [00:28:40] in my generation, I'm older than you, and I don't know how you feel about it, but [00:28:45] definitely the whole calories in, calories out model, you just over-exercise and [00:28:50] under-eat to lose weight, was really the prevailing [00:28:55] theme through all of my adolescence and young adulthood. And we really know [00:29:00] now that your hormonal influence your blood sugar regulation, your [00:29:05] insulin management is a big player with this. But we also know that your gut [00:29:10] microbes have a huge role here too.
We have talked a lot about butyrate. [00:29:15] Butyrate is definitely one of those short chain fatty acids that's super important and kind of the focal point for a lot [00:29:20] of people. But there are some other short chain fatty acids that come into play here. Specifically [00:29:25] propionate is the one that I'm thinking of with metabolism, really helps [00:29:30] your liver to produce glucose. And this, so this might not make a [00:29:35] ton of sense, but remember that when you don't have food in your system and you're [00:29:40] not eating, your body relies on your blood sugar, number one. It [00:29:45] also relies on stored sugar in your liver and muscle [00:29:50] cells.
It's called glycogen. And it also relies on your liver to be able [00:29:55] to pull fatty acids and convert them to energy. And so [00:30:00] all these different metabolic processes, we want them to be able to happen [00:30:05] seamlessly. We don't want to feel huge energy lows and feeling super [00:30:10] hangry and things like that are, like, indications that you don't [00:30:15] have a well-functioning transition points between your body trying to get [00:30:20] energy from all these different sources.
So this is where these bacteria come in that [00:30:25] produce these short-chain fatty acids, they're like signaling molecules to the rest of your [00:30:30] body to help bring energy into play. And so as [00:30:35] people get older, they often feel like, "Oh I'm just gonna be more tired," or, "I'm [00:30:40] just gonna have energy crashes," or, "I have to take a nap every day."
I feel like we've talked [00:30:45] about that in different episodes before. And while that could be true for [00:30:50] differing reasons, I think this is the energy that your body [00:30:55] requires is a huge thing to pay attention to. If you are often tired [00:31:00] at the same time every day or let's say you skip breakfast a lot, and then the whole [00:31:05] rest of the day you feel hungry, you don't feel like you have super great energy, your body [00:31:10] is struggling.
That's what it's trying to tell you, is that it's struggling to get you the [00:31:15] energy that you need to function. And so you have to think about that those [00:31:20] ways that your body creates and manages energy, and this is just a great example of how the [00:31:25] microbiome is in play here
Alex: What would you say to, a [00:31:30] woman in their 40s that's starting to experience this, that feels like their metabolism is broken, [00:31:35] and, maybe feels like she's doing everything right?
Charis: Yeah, so I love that [00:31:40] you brought this up, because you're right. And there's a lot of factors in play here, but I'm just gonna [00:31:45] talk about a few of them. I would say in mid-life, one thing that [00:31:50] women often don't think about is the stress or nervous system [00:31:55] component to their life. So oftentimes they're further, evolved in their [00:32:00] career.
Many times they have children, also aging parents. Their body is [00:32:05] definitely changing. Hormones are becoming more irregular, if you will. [00:32:10] And so there's a lot of things happening from an outside [00:32:15] perspective, and things that the person is managing, but also from a perspective of how your [00:32:20] physiology is working.
So sometimes the metabolism [00:32:25] piece or the weight gain piece or the inability to lose weight is related to [00:32:30] estrogen, because estrogen is very intimately connected with insulin and how our [00:32:35] body uses insulin and that blood sugar regulation happens. But [00:32:40] we also have to think about- If you have a disrupted microbiome, which is what [00:32:45] we're focusing on this episode, then that can actually influence your [00:32:50] cravings too.
So let's say you are just in that part of your [00:32:55] life and you're thinking, "I just need to eat less." You're eating less, which I would [00:33:00] go out on a limb and say you are likely probably eating less fruits and vegetables [00:33:05] also. And so that is less diversity, less fuel for your [00:33:10] microbiome. Your microbiome can't help regulate things with the proprion- like we [00:33:15] just talked about.
But also there's a lot of signaling with your [00:33:20] natural GLP-1 and another hormone called PYY that are [00:33:25] really a big part of how your cells [00:33:30] are managing hunger. And so really you [00:33:35] want to eat your meal and feel satisfied by that for many hours because [00:33:40] if you go back to the digestion episode, we talked about how eating all day long and [00:33:45] grazing and eating a lot of snacks is really harmful to your digestion.
[00:33:50] But it comes into play here too. If your microbes in your microbiome are having to [00:33:55] work overtime, that is a huge energy suck on your [00:34:00] body, and it's not the kind of thing that we want to be focusing on. We [00:34:05] want to try and eat three very well-rounded meals. And I think what I see a [00:34:10] lot is what happens is women...
This happens over decades. They just think, [00:34:15] "Oh, it's better to keep my m- my blood sugar stable to eat more throughout the [00:34:20] day." That's definitely what I learned even when I was getting my exercise science degree, is that's what they taught [00:34:25] us. This is in like the '90s. And so we know now that every [00:34:30] time our insulin is spiked and then it drops down, and those fluctuations [00:34:35] are what is very disruptive to our metabolism and our appetite [00:34:40] regulation.
And so that's probably the first part, is really trying to get that [00:34:45] eating more well-rounded meals so you can have a good gap in [00:34:50] between, and that your digestion, which also is your microbiome, 'cause remember that's [00:34:55] the end point in your large intestine, that process can function the way it's [00:35:00] supposed to and you don't have these huge energy crashes and lows.
The main [00:35:05] message here is that you're not broken. Your metabolism isn't broken. [00:35:10] Your body isn't, past repair, I would say. That's definitely not the [00:35:15] truth. There are a lot of actionable things you can do to support your body.
But just [00:35:20] remember that it's not always about, taking in more fiber. Yes, that's really [00:35:25] important, and having diverse foods in your diet, but it's also the digestion [00:35:30] piece. It's also the stress piece. We're gonna release some episodes that are a little bit [00:35:35] more focused on this time of life for women because it is a large [00:35:40] number of my clients.
I'm in that stage of my life, and so I feel like I [00:35:45] have gone down many rabbit holes to understand this. And when you do [00:35:50] look at it in this way, it does help make sense, and it helps encourage you [00:35:55] to think about that you have a lot of control. And I would say [00:36:00] that knowing that you're going into this time of your life, it would be [00:36:05] good to be thinking about these things rather than waiting until you just have all these [00:36:10] symptoms that you feel like are hard to manage.
But even if you're at that point, there's a lot [00:36:15] that can be done
Alex: So what disrupts the microbiome? Obviously, [00:36:20] everyone talks about antibiotics. I think that's an obvious one. But unfortunately, [00:36:25] sometimes antibiotics are necessary you have to take them.
Once we talk a little about what supports it that'll [00:36:30] definitely be a question, because I know I've had my fair share of antibiotics in my life. I've got [00:36:35] strep throat when I was a kid, maybe 100 times.
Charis: So most [00:36:40] practitioners that understand this and can help guide you in regards to this [00:36:45] recommend taking probiotics at the same time you're taking antibiotics if you can [00:36:50] help it. And if not, then you can do it immediately after. And there's a lot of [00:36:55] nuance to that about specific products and different things that will really help de- depending on [00:37:00] the situation.
But you also have to zoom out a little bit and think about the terrain. So I would [00:37:05] say this is also a great time to be really fortifying your diet with a lot [00:37:10] of diversity, a lot of fermented foods, a lot of things that are very nourishing [00:37:15] to your gut in general because antibiotics are detrimental to your microbiome, but they're also [00:37:20] detrimental to your intestinal barrier like we talked about last week.
They just kinda come in and are [00:37:25] like a wrecking ball , they don't have really any focused, [00:37:30] focal point as far as preserving anything. They just do a lot of disruption. [00:37:35] But I would put other medications in this class, too. A lot of NSAIDs, [00:37:40] a lot of other meds can be very hard on the gut.
And so if you're taking [00:37:45] prescription medication, just keeping that in mind, that focusing on [00:37:50] the health of your microbiome and really making sure you have good [00:37:55] intestinal structure and integrity would be the priority things in my [00:38:00] mind. Stress definitely is impacted here. Obviously low-fiber [00:38:05] diets. I don't think anybody could come to that conclusion based on how much we've been talking about [00:38:10] it, but it literally is a big part of it.
And I think the thing that's tricky with [00:38:15] fiber is a lot of times if someone hears this episode and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I really [00:38:20] don't eat that much fiber. I'm gonna double what I'm eating or triple or quadruple. I'm gonna [00:38:25] try and get that 30 grams a day in where I was only maybe eating 5 grams a [00:38:30] day," most people have pretty significant symptoms from that.
Bloating, [00:38:35] sometimes it can make you feel constipated, and so that's not really the best way to go about it. [00:38:40] I really like to have people layer increasing their fiber [00:38:45] in over a matter of weeks. Maybe you keep track for a couple days and find out [00:38:50] how much fiber you actually are eating and then start there and [00:38:55] then gradually increase it.
Add another type of fruit or vegetable to your lunch. [00:39:00] Add something else to your dinner. Work your way up so that your system has the [00:39:05] ability to tolerate it. is really the best way to go about increasing fiber. [00:39:10] And most people don't eat enough fiber. That's really the [00:39:15] bottom line. So if you needed to take antibiotics or let's say you were hospitalized or something, you didn't [00:39:20] really have a choice and couldn't be proactive.
On the flip side of that, allowing your [00:39:25] body to recover, that's where the fiber piece can come in, and the fermented foods, and the [00:39:30] things that we talked about the end of last episode, like bone broth, and minerals, [00:39:35] and things like that.
Alex: in my clinical biochemistry course, [00:39:40] this, week's module is about fiber and all that stuff.
It differentiates with age group, but [00:39:45] people get roughly between 16 and 18. And, For example, like men, [00:39:50] so you know, my fiance is 30, and the Institute [00:39:55] of Medicine recommends 38 grams for a man in the age group [00:40:00] of 19 to 50, right?
And I was telling my fiance and [00:40:05] um, he's like, "Well, I, I eat peppers." I was like, one pepper is like two grams of [00:40:10] fiber," right? so like I think when you tell people like, "You gotta eat more," it's overwhelming 'cause food has a lot [00:40:15] less fiber than you think it does.
'Cause he's like, "Okay. I'll have three peppers," and I was like, "There's [00:40:20] six grams." Yeah. Like you can't just eat 30 grams of peppers a day. I think fiber is... it's hard [00:40:25] to get, and that's why I think a lot of people don't get it is because nothing is like entirely so dense. [00:40:30] You can't eat something that's 15 grams of fiber and eat two of them and then, you're done. It takes a lot of [00:40:35] work to eat that much fiber.
Charis: yeah. And I would say, that statement, [00:40:40] which is not untrue, that it takes a lot of work, it's really just because we haven't been [00:40:45] eating that way.
And so if you're trying to change the way that you're eating, you just have [00:40:50] to be open to knowing that it's gonna take some effort to learn a little bit [00:40:55] about what you need to do, and then to implement it. And so that's just [00:41:00] like a super like basic level of just behavior change, right? And [00:41:05] so I think a lot of people are like just tell me what to take.
Tell me what to eat," and it's [00:41:10] really not... that's not the way you should be thinking about it. We really should be thinking about like [00:41:15] what... if you could write out what a typical breakfast looks like for you, a typical [00:41:20] lunch, a typical dinner, and where could you add in some fiber [00:41:25] into that? And I'll just give you a perfect example from yesterday.
This is perfect to your point. [00:41:30] So one of the things I love to make is I make overnight oats, which [00:41:35] become a resistant starch, which is just a type of fiber that helps to feed your [00:41:40] bacteria. And it also, it's super convenient 'cause you can just make this big batch and keep it in the [00:41:45] fridge. And so I usually put, cook the oats, and then I put some chia seeds in there, which also have [00:41:50] soluble fiber.
And then I just keep it in the fridge, and my kids and I will eat it, throughout the [00:41:55] week. And it's great because I don't know how many people have heard me mention this, but even though a lot of people [00:42:00] would consider that a breakfast food, I eat it sometimes for lunch. I have actually eaten it for [00:42:05] dinner before too.
And so it's just, it doesn't matter, right? Food is food. Then [00:42:10] I make a fruit compote. So I will take a ton of different kinds of berries, [00:42:15] and I make this big pot, and basically where I just cook the berries down. [00:42:20] And so you're just gently cooking them to get them to break down a little bit, and it just [00:42:25] turns into this yummy thing that you can throw on the top of your oats.
Berries have a good [00:42:30] amount of fiber in them too. And so in this meal exactly, you're talking [00:42:35] about oats, you're talking about chia seeds, and you're talking about berries that have the [00:42:40] fiber. Now, this doesn't have really any protein with it, right? So sometimes I will [00:42:45] add protein powder. If I want it to taste, like, really vanilla-y, I'll put [00:42:50] like, vanilla protein powder in there, or sometimes I'll just eat protein on the side.
I'll just have [00:42:55] eggs or I'll have chicken sausage or something like that. But as far as from a fiber [00:43:00] perspective, you have three or four different types of fiber in this meal, right? And [00:43:05] then yesterday I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna try and increase the fiber a little bit more." So I [00:43:10] had basil seeds, which I don't know how many people know what these are, but they're tiny little [00:43:15] seeds that make basil, and they have a ton of fiber in them.
[00:43:20] But the serving on the package is two tablespoons is 15 grams of [00:43:25] fiber. And so I was like, "Whoa. Okay, I'm not gonna put two [00:43:30] tablespoons of basil seeds into this." That's just overkill. But the more I thought about it, I was [00:43:35] like if it's one tablespoon, that's seven and a half grams, right?
Plus whatever's in the [00:43:40] berries, plus whatever's in the oats. I had this all... I figured this all out at one point. [00:43:45] And the chia. It's, that's a really fiber robust [00:43:50] meal. Because you have the diversity, because you have the, all these [00:43:55] different flavors and things too, it just doesn't taste like- I don't know, like a chalky [00:44:00] fiber drink or something like that.
Which I would never drink. So that's just a great [00:44:05] example of how you can... And maybe you don't start there. If you're not used to eating that [00:44:10] much fiber, I probably wouldn't start with that. I would start maybe just with the oats and the chia [00:44:15] seeds and see how you tolerate that. Or you could just do the oats and add [00:44:20] some basil seeds to it.
You could add some chia seeds in the morning or whenever [00:44:25] the next day that you're eating it, and just see how you feel. Keep track. That was 10 [00:44:30] grams, and I felt fine. I didn't really notice anything. Then keep- ... building on that, and [00:44:35] then you can build on it a little bit over a time. And maybe add a few fresh [00:44:40] berries, first, and then if you wanna get really crazy, you can make some compote.
[00:44:45] I'll just interject here and tell you that my favorite thing to do with compote [00:44:50] is to make a big batch of it, and then I freeze it into these little cubes. And so [00:44:55] we have- ... like tons of cubes in our freezer, and when you need some compote, you just take it [00:45:00] out and heat it up on a low heat, and it's a great [00:45:05] addition to something like this.
Alex: That sounds incredible. Yeah. Yeah, fiber's definitely not [00:45:10] something you can go zero to 100 with.
Charis: No. Yeah, so berry compote is really good. [00:45:15] So is apple compote. So apple compote, I've never frozen apple compote. It never lasts very long [00:45:20] in my house. But I just go to Costco and get a giant bag of apples [00:45:25] and cut the apples down, cook them up.
It literally tastes like you're eating apple [00:45:30] pie when you put it on an oat mixture or something. It's the best. So [00:45:35] yummy.
Alex: I love a little fiber hack.
Charis: Yeah. That's a great thing to do that [00:45:40] tastes really good. And it's actually not that hard. I really like to batch things [00:45:45] that I'm cooking.
So if I know I'm n- gonna make some compote, I will just pair [00:45:50] that when I'm, like, making dinner. And so I'll just start maybe a little bit earlier, get it prepped, or I [00:45:55] have my kids help me prep it, and then I just throw it in the pot 'cause you don't have to do anything. [00:46:00] You just stir it. It cooks on low.
You add some cinnamon to the apples or whatever. [00:46:05] And then it's cooked, and so it's not, It doesn't take a ton of extra time. [00:46:10] It's, you're already- ... in the kitchen doing it anyway. So one thing that we didn't really talk [00:46:15] about or I didn't mention when we talked about what disrupts the microbiome, in the [00:46:20] digestive episode we talked about SIBO a little bit and we talked about the migrating [00:46:25] motor complex, which is really just that kind of internal cleaning [00:46:30] mechanism that mo- keeps the food when it's not [00:46:35] food anymore and keeps it going through your small intestine and your large intestine, and we [00:46:40] really want that to happen in a very natural manner.
And [00:46:45] that action of the MMC cannot really happen when we're eating all the [00:46:50] time, and so that is another reason why having this significant [00:46:55] break in between your meals is really important. And so when your MMC is [00:47:00] disrupted, it can set up SIBO, but it can also set up issues with your [00:47:05] microbiome.
Your microbiome, as I mentioned before, just cannot function [00:47:10] well when it is constantly having to deal with the intake of whatever you're [00:47:15] taking in, and so it likes the break to do its work
Alex: so with all the [00:47:20] three episodes that we've had, north to south the first one, and then [00:47:25] last episode was leaky gut, and then now the microbiome, how [00:47:30] can you close the loop and discuss how it all just works together, like the [00:47:35] big picture, and why, it matters so much?
Charis: For sure. So [00:47:40] I hope that people can see now, especially when you do zoom out, [00:47:45] that your body is intimately connected in every way, and a big focal [00:47:50] point of this is your gut. And so I do agree that your nervous [00:47:55] system is a big player in your healing, but remember that your nervous [00:48:00] system is intimately connected through your gut.
You have an entire nervous system called your [00:48:05] enteric nervous system that connects your nervous system and your gut together. So [00:48:10] really, the gut is the primary focus. So I [00:48:15] separated this into three episodes, not because they stand alone and not because one is more important [00:48:20] than the other, but just to help people separate it in their mind.
So [00:48:25] digestive function, like you said, the north to south process of how that happens, [00:48:30] and the most important things are that each step sets up the next step, and that [00:48:35] it literally cannot function properly if you're not in a parasympathetic state. [00:48:40] So that is probably the single most important thing that I see in [00:48:45] everyone.
Every person that I work with, even if I've worked with someone for years, I [00:48:50] have to come back to this. For myself, I was a little bit in a hurry this [00:48:55] morning when I was getting ready, and I found myself holding my bowl and walking around my [00:49:00] kitchen. This is just part of our culture and our lives.
And so [00:49:05] you really have to think about your own lifestyle and how you can [00:49:10] intervene here. But this is an important part because if you're not [00:49:15] digesting foods properly, then you're not getting the nutrients out of those foods. [00:49:20] Also, whatever's left of the food when it gets to your small intestine and large intestine [00:49:25] could be setting up a process like SIBO.
It could be setting up a process in the [00:49:30] large intestine to digest proteins. We don't want that. We want those things [00:49:35] digested in the proper place. Proteins digestion happens in the stomach primarily. [00:49:40] And so this is why just looking at your step-by-step digestive function [00:49:45] is really important. And then to build on that, thinking about your [00:49:50] intestinal barrier, what are you taking in?
How could that be [00:49:55] helping your barrier, and how could it be hurting your barrier? And if you [00:50:00] have symptoms that are systemic especially, how could that be [00:50:05] connected to a leaky gut? And, you have brought this [00:50:10] up before 'cause I think a lot of people think about all the things to take out, especially when they're [00:50:15] thinking about an elimination diet or removing sugar from your diet or [00:50:20] inflammatory oils or fats or things like that.
Yes, those things are really [00:50:25] important to pay attention to, but we also have to think about how we support [00:50:30] our body and the nutrients it needs to heal, like minerals and things like [00:50:35] bone broth with collagen and glutamine and some of these other nutrients that are [00:50:40] really supportive to the body. It's doing both of those things, being aware of [00:50:45] what's going in and is not helping you, and also what could help you [00:50:50] more and amplify your healing.
And then I would say that The [00:50:55] microbiome is just the sweet spot for everyone. [00:51:00] I haven't ever run a microbiome test where I have seen a perfect, beautiful [00:51:05] microbiome that's functioning properly. And the message there is just that a [00:51:10] lot of people have done a lot of work with their own GI tract, with our own health, [00:51:15] and the microbiome could be the missing piece for you.
I would go back [00:51:20] and think through some of these things that we've talked about, like what does your [00:51:25] food diversity look like? Do you eat the same fruits and vegetables or [00:51:30] fibers every day? Are you just calling your flax that you put on top of your [00:51:35] yogurt the fiber and that's it? You really need more diversity, and you [00:51:40] need to build that over time.
That is not something that you can just do a 180 on [00:51:45] usually. And then, understanding, I think, like, [00:51:50] how this all fits together and not getting overwhelmed, just [00:51:55] focusing on one thing at a time. And then if you need help, you can always reach [00:52:00] out. You can always reach out to me. I can help you maybe even figure out [00:52:05] what to focus on.
My assessment that I have online is a great place to start [00:52:10] for foundational things. It doesn't really go into the gut per se, but there are [00:52:15] definitely gut related questions on there that can help you understand. And then maybe [00:52:20] one of the single most important things outside of eating in a parasympathetic state [00:52:25] is eating all day long.
I think people don't even realize that they do [00:52:30] this. They're picking off their kids' plates. They're grabbing a snack. They see the [00:52:35] donut at work, and they just eat it, and they don't think about the implication of that. [00:52:40] If you literally just tried to focus on having a really well-rounded meal three meals [00:52:45] a day and not eating for three to four hours in between, that would be [00:52:50] also be an excellent place to start, and that influences all of these [00:52:55] different parts of the GI tract that we've been talking about
Alex: Yeah, that, that was [00:53:00] my next question was if you could, give you someone, one task, and I know it's hard [00:53:05] to blanket statement 'cause you don't know, what their habits are, but one thing to focus [00:53:10] on for your microbiome.
Would it be diversifying?
Charis: I think so. I [00:53:15] think diversity of fibers and diversity, of different foods. If you think about [00:53:20] all the different foods that support your microbiome from a fiber standpoint, you have [00:53:25] resistant starches. I already mentioned oats, but a lot of people cook and cool potatoes.
[00:53:30] Same thing. Or green bananas, which a lot of people aren't eating green bananas. [00:53:35] There is actually green banana powder that you can buy if you wanna just bring in [00:53:40] a different type. But again, that's in a rotation of different foods and [00:53:45] eating a wide variety of foods. And so the way to not look at this is [00:53:50] to get overwhelmed and make a list of 20 different fibers or 20 different foods [00:53:55] you need to add into your diet.
The best way to look at this is to really assess where [00:54:00] you're at now and where you can improve. So let's say you don't eat a lot of [00:54:05] legumes or lentils. Why don't you just start adding that in? Focus on that for a [00:54:10] week or two. How can you add some lentils or legumes into your diet? Most [00:54:15] days of week, even three days a week is great.
And then you can build on that. [00:54:20] Maybe you could look at seeds like chia seeds, flax seeds, [00:54:25] basil seeds, as I mentioned. All of those different things have a lot of different fibers, and some [00:54:30] things might be harder for your body to break down than others. And so you might have to pull back on [00:54:35] that a little bit, and that's okay.
But the only way you'll know is just by doing it. [00:54:40] And so layering it in week by week and not overwhelming yourself will help it [00:54:45] become a part of how you eat, become a part of who you are. So it's [00:54:50] not just like I'm gonna white-knuckle this for 30 days. That's not gonna work [00:54:55] when it comes to this. And so the microbiome really needs diversity, and it [00:55:00] needs a lot of different fibers coming in throughout the day to support it
Alex: [00:55:05] Yeah I think this episode is...
I've learned a lot a lot of stuff that I had no [00:55:10] idea about. And I'm learning this stuff,
Charis: yeah. You're learning about things from a very scientific [00:55:15] way, and you obviously have courses too that'll help you to apply it in the real world, [00:55:20] and I think that's just the secret sauce with all this stuff, is really being able [00:55:25] to understand it and understand the why, but then also be able to apply it [00:55:30] to real life.
Okay, so now what should I do, right? 'Cause that's- ... really where the rubber [00:55:35] meets the road. That's the most important part.
Alex: I could read 300 [00:55:40] books about how to swim, but if I didn't actually swim, I'm not gonna know how to [00:55:45] swim.
Charis: Exactly. That's such a great way to think about it, and that's exactly [00:55:50] the same here.
And remember, you're an individual, what my husband does to increase [00:55:55] his fiber intake in his diet is very different than the way that I do it, and we've figured that [00:56:00] out for ourselves, and we have things that we both do, but then we definitely have things that we [00:56:05] do differently too, and that's okay.
It takes a little bit of trial and error. It takes a little bit [00:56:10] of process and having an open mind to things that maybe you, like I mentioned with the zucchini [00:56:15] before, you hadn't eaten before, and trying some things and finding what really [00:56:20] sticks for you.
Alex: Yeah. For sure.
Charis: So thank you again for being here, Alex, [00:56:25] and I'm really thrilled that we did this series.
I've gotten a lot of great [00:56:30] feedback on it so far, and people are feeling like it has a lot of actionable [00:56:35] information that they can bring into their own lives. So as always, the listener, thank you [00:56:40] for being here, and we'll see you next week.
The information shared on this [00:56:45] podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered [00:56:50] medical advice. I am not a medical doctor, and this content is not intended [00:56:55] to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Please consult with a [00:57:00] qualified healthcare professional before making any decisions related to your health, [00:57:05] especially if you have a medical condition or are taking medications
