Charis & Gina
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Gina: I took my body to the doctor, right? And then I took my mind to the psychologist and the psychiatrist. I did not have anybody to talk to about spiritual anything at all.
And what was so interesting is that everything was being treated in isolation.
Charis: Welcome back to the Harness Your Health podcast. I am Charis Sederberg, and I am here with a special guest today, Gina Boyd. Gina, thank you for being here.
Gina: Hi. Thank you. I'm really excited to be here.
This is big.
Charis: Yeah, it's gonna be fun. So you are the first book collaborator as part of the Integrated Bodies book that I have on the podcast.
So I interviewed Jess Verrill, and she was on last week. She is the woman that brought us all together, and so you are the first one. So we're gonna learn a little bit about who you are, what you do, and so why don't you just tell us that now, and then we'll get into the juicy details.
Gina: Yes. Yeah. Awesome.
And Jess is so lovely, and I'm so excited she asked me to collaborate. So- Yeah ... yes, my name is Gina Marie Boyd, and I am an integrative health practitioner. What does that mean? So essentially, I help people explore the biological, psychological, and sort of spiritual factors that shape their health.
I'm also working on my PhD in transpersonal counseling. So my work overlaps with counseling, transpersonal counseling, integrative medicine, and then also,
psychedelic integration, which is very interesting. And so- Love ... from a, like a one-on-one perspective, that just is like a fancy way of saying I work with people one-on-one. I love it ... in those areas. Yeah.
Charis: I love it. It's so fun to hear people, about people's backgrounds and their stories, right? And, like, all of the things that we've done have shaped where we are today.
And we were talking a little bit before we started recording about our like, previous lives, so we all have those, and it's just really interesting, I think, to see how people are where they are. And I was telling Jess when we were talking on our interview that I don't know if you were in the meeting.
The, the meeting that I'm referring to was at the end of July, where she invited us all on Zoom, and there was probably six or seven or eight people there, and I didn't know any of these people. I didn't even know their online presence I didn't know who they were.
And I just felt there was, like, an energy to that call of all of these people who are working on this common project. And so why don't you tell me a little bit about what made you interested in this project? And maybe you can tell us just a little bit about what your chapter is about.
Gina: Sure, sure. So I, it's funny this has been a a career transition for me over the last several years.
So in a previous life, I was a president of a company managing an IPO. And I got very sick, maybe sick isn't even the right word for it, but it was, like, a complete breakdown. I started having health issues, but then there was this emotional component, and then later it felt like there was this meaning and identity piece that started to crumble.
And I lost it all in a very dramatic way. And couldn't get off the couch. My labs looked normal- ... but I felt broken and dead inside. And it forced me to confront a lot of things, including my identity and attachment to this role and being very important. I thought I was very important.
I thought I was very special. It forced me to look at my health and my sobriety. So I was privately living with a two-decade-long cocaine and alcohol addiction that- ... I think no one knew about. Ha. But, you know, uh, pe- I think people, I mean- That's a hard thing to hide. And so at the end of all of that I ended up getting sober, and then trying to figure out how my life collapsed so fantastically.
And I kind of spent two years in sweatpants reading everything about spirituality and metaphysics, but then I thought there's a health piece here. What's this about Ayurveda? What about integrative medicine? Then I went down like a neuroscience rabbit hole, and then at the end sort of emerged with this methodology, which is what I wrote about in the book.
I did go back to school to study metaphysical science, so I have a masters in metaphysical science, integrative medicine, another masters, and then my PhD in transpersonal counseling, which I'm still wrapping up. So I put all of this into a bow, a box with a bow. And then developed this framework called Realign, which is sort of, like a whole person counseling methodology so that nothing gets left out.
What I found was in my own healing journey, I took my body to the doctor, right? And then I took my mind to the psychologist and the psychiatrist. I did not have anybody to talk to about spiritual anything at all. In fact, I was raised atheist, which was doing me also no favors at the time.
And what was so interesting is that everything was being treated in isolation. So I go to my doctor and he's looking at my labs, or I go to the GI specialist, but nobody's asking me about my stress. And my therapist diagnosed me, and my psychiatrist both diagnosed me with PTSD, depression, anxiety and a few other things.
But nobody was asking about my diet and lifestyle really, or even looking at my physiology, which I learned much later plays a huge part in mood. So it was like all of these things were being treated in isolation, but I'm living inside the human experience suffering all at once with all of those things.
I guess I, I tell people I survived into this framework. It wasn't something that I just ... It's not just theory. It's lived.
Charis: That makes me think of so many things. So first of all, it makes me think of people who don't survive, and that could be either that they truly don't survive, they die because of the extreme things that you're talking about, addiction, and that obviously does happen.
But also they don't survive on the level of, like, where they want to be, right? And so they can't overcome that. And Jess and I talked a little bit about this in our interview too, is that she wanted the book to be for people who don't have the support and resources and community to help them guide them towards some of these answers.
And I often explain that I think that the reason that medicine, or you could even say psychiatry, psychology, whatever it is, puts people in a box and keeps this very tight linear path is because it's easier to help them, right? If you go to your doctor and you're like, "I am exhausted all the time.
Oh, and by the way, I'm depressed and anxious," the doctor's like, "Okay, compartmentalize, like, exhaustion, anxiety, depression," right? And it's easier for them to do that. It's harder for them to look at you with this big umbrella. And so when I first met you and learned about what you did, I told you, this to me is the way, because no one person experiences anything exactly the same.
Some people might have much more of a physical manifestation of what's happening. Some people might have more psychological or mental, right? So you're basically going through this experience on your own, which is whole journey on itself. And I appreciate you so much being vulnerable here, 'cause most people who are in this line of work have had some sort of story, have had some sort of experience, and that's what motivates us and is- puts us even in this place, right?
And then the second piece of that is we want to help others. And so what would you say to someone who feels like they hear your story, they hear what you're saying, it resonates for them just like it did for me, what can they do? I know you have a program, but like let's say it's someone who is seeing their medical doctor in the conventional medicine model, like what kind of things could they ask themselves, could they think about?
Could there be some starting questions there?
Gina: Yes. Yeah, and I'm so glad you asked, because honestly, I almost did not survive this. Oh. So I had a near overdose experience when my life collapsed and was very disappointed that I survived. And it's interesting because this is sort of where this, a spiritual piece comes in- and I know that can be really polarizing for some people. Some people are just like, "That is very unscientific. That is very- ... mm-hmm ... woo woo." And for me, I started... I felt like I, I had met a woman just a couple weeks before randomly at a coffee shop who just casually said, I'm in AA.
If you ever need anything, call me." Oh. And I went on a three-day drug and alcohol binge at the, my lowest point. I had been fired. I had been sued. There was tons of issues in previous experiences with sexual assault that sort of surfaced. It was like this whole, like I said, fantastic just entire collapse.
And I came out of this three-day drug and alcohol binge, and I remember, I found myself like on a dirty mattress in a house I didn't... you know, just the, the thing that you can imagine, almost like a movie. And I remember driving, I was staying with a friend at the time. I remember driving home and thinking, "I'm not going to survive the next one."
And- I was, like, compelled to message this woman. When I got home, I said, "I think I should go to a meeting." And that was the beginning for me. It was like this little nudge from somewhere. Now, the spirituality piece, again, like I said, can be really polarizing. We don't have to call it God.
It can be universe, l- nature, whatever it is. So the word doesn't matter. The dimension it points to is non-negotiable. There needs to be some sort of meaning and identity piece and exploration of it. And when people... if I was going to... If someone was going to ask me, what do I do in this case?
You asked about specific questions. I have three questions. that help me unpack this. One is, what's actually happening? What's happening? What's actually happening in my physiology right now? Like, oh, my, I'm getting my heart is racing, or I'm having extreme fatigue or exhaustion, what is actually happening?
And then I ask, what's underneath it? And then the third question is: what does it mean? And I encourage people to hold onto those questions when they're in their doctor's office. You know- ... we tend to like, outsource agency to the doctor because he went to school for this. He's a professional.
He's wearing a coat. He has a degree. He knows my body better than I do. What? So there's a piece of that which is please don't not go to your doctor. But you are invited to stay in the room. Yeah. You are invited to ask questions. Yeah. And I think that's the part. If somebody's saying, "Oh, I have fatigue."
Okay why? It's fatigue- mm ...... because I literally just cannot get up during the day, or I didn't sleep last night. What's behind... What's the thing behind the thing- ... I guess is the better- ... way to phrase that.
Charis: And that there's no right or wrong answer, right? These are just- Right literally, like, it's a awareness, and I think this is something lacking. It was definitely lacking for me. I, when I started in holistic nutrition school, I started seeing different clinicians, a functional medicine doctor, a naturopath these different people, and every single one of them is like, "Your nervous system, your nervous system, your nervous system."
And I'm like, "Oh yeah, yeah, no, I exercise. I meditate. I try and sleep, i'm, have a great family." W- and they're like, "No, your nervous system." And so I was, like, missing the whole piece because I was literally not aware of where I was. Like, was my heart racing? Was my mind racing? Was I laying on the floor and I couldn't even get up?
I couldn't even tell you- ... because I just was, like, going through the motions. And so the awareness piece is so important, so I love those questions because it's not like you have to do all three. One leads to the next. But you can have these questions written on a page in a journal or on your computer or whatever, right?
Yeah. And you can look at them, and you can think about them, and you can keep them in your mind, and things will start coming to you as you start to be a little bit more aware because awareness is our greatest gift. And just like you said we put that responsibility onto the clinician or the doctor- But it's also feels so good to be like, "This is what I'm feeling and thinking.
Tell me what you're seeing," right? And we've all been there where we've had a really good clinician that meets us where we are with that. But I love it that you brought that up, because I think a lot of people don't even feel like they can say anything.
Gina: Yeah, and honestly, that to me, if you do not feel like you can speak to your doctor or clinician, that is a red flag.
Yeah. Because I have had clients who've brought things up to their doctor, and the doctor says, "That's ridiculous," right? And then I've had clients that bring stuff up to their doctor and their doctor's like, "Oh, that- that's so interesting. I think that could be really great for you." You know- yeah
that, that is that means so much to have somebody- It does ... who's in your corner. Like, you're allowed to switch doctors. Again you're allowed to stay in the room. I know. You're allowed to participate in the conversation. And I've gone through many clinicians until I found, the right person.
Same thing with a therapist, right? Sometimes you go to the website and it's just whatever your insurance allows, and it's like- ... "I like their jacket. That'll be my therapist." Like, oh gosh. Yeah. But some of us do that. Honestly, you're like, "How do you pick?" I don't like that. Yes. Right? Yeah.
Yeah. Totally.
Charis: Yeah, so I think, this reminds me of when I was taking care of patients, and most of my job was I worked in an infusion center, so I would be like your chemo nurse. I would start your IV or access your line or whatever, and give you all of your IV drug treatment. And so a lot of times our patients would come from their doctor's office, and sometimes they would get bad news, and sometimes the news would be, "Your treatment wasn't working.
Your cancer has progressed. We went over your scan results. I think we should do this." And it almost doesn't even hit them until then when they get down to us and they are upset. And so I used to always just be like, "Talk to me. What's going on?" They're like I don't know if I wanna do this. I just... I was just told this 30 minutes ago.
I haven't even ti- time to think about it." In our very linear progression of our system. And so I'm like let's not do it right this second. Let's talk about it. I'll call someone and see if they can come down here, or his or her nurse or like..." And they're like, "Wait, what?"
I'm like, "Yeah. This is you. This is your body. This is your treatment. I'm not treating you like a number on the schedule. You're a human being." And I used to love to empower people with just that little bit of empowerment, even reminding them that they could sit there for a few minutes, talk to their loved one that's with them, give them a little bit of space, maybe go outside, like whatever, and then like, " what do you wanna do?"
'Cause most of the time people are like, "Okay, I feel better. I feel encouraged. I've had a little time to think about it," right? So it's like the humanness has to be there.
Gina: Totally. And I... it's funny, I, 'cause I... It makes me think about I went back to study integrative medicine 'cause I thought I just...
No one's taught us how to listen to our bodies. Yeah. And I just... and I remember thinking, oh gosh, there's no big business in teaching people how to feel better. Exactly. Unless you call it the wellness industry. Ba-dum-bum-tss, right? Which is its own billion-dollar industry, which I have thoughts on, too.
Sure ... yeah, but I think I was wanting to, like you said, empower people. Empower people to know what's going on in their body. And we conflate like normal with, it happens often. It, you know- ... and it's, just because it's something that happens, "Oh, like I always get heartburn, it's normal."
"Oh, I always have premenstrual symptoms. It's normal." "That's always what happens." It's actually not normal. Right. Mm-hmm. To me, not to be like super Louise Hay, but sometimes I believe symptoms are messages, and I don't say that in the way where it's like everything is a spiritual lesson.
Oh- ... your sore throat, you don't speak up enough. You need to- I'm not gonna go there. Yeah. Regardless of my own personal beliefs- ... when I'm working with people, like there's more to unpack here. So- ... a lot of this starts to look like again, what's happening in the physiology?
What's happening- Yeah ... in the psychology? And then also, what's some of the meaning or spiritual piece behind it? And it's funny 'cause Ayurveda, which I'm not sure if everyone's familiar with, Ayurveda- ... and traditional Chinese medicine, I'll share a little bit about it. So- Please. Yeah.
So Ayurveda is a 5,000-year-old medical system that developed in ancient India, and it's incredibly profound, very scientific and has been used for thousands of years. And there are several books that talk about all the different surgeries that they were doing back then and all of the herbs and the protocols, and it's very detailed.
And what's interesting to me about traditional Chinese medicine and Ayurveda is they never looked at the person in, as symptoms in isolation, right? It was, everything was looked at holistically, and somewhere in an effort to be more scientific, more rigorous- ... we developed our current biomedical model, which also comes from, not to get too into history, but this idea of Cartesian dualism, which some people might be familiar with.
But Descartes was actually a mathematician. And what's fascinating about him is he was a very religious man, but at the time, Galileo was also being persecuted by the- ... Catholic Church. And so in an attempt to kind of- fly under the radar and continue to study the human body, he made an agreement with the church.
He said, "I'll leave matters of mind and spirit to the church." "But please let me continue to look at the human body and study it for science." And the church said, "Okay." So then we get the body as a machine studied as a scientific specimen, and then over time we have adopted this model. And, most people don't understand where that even came from.
And the fascinating thing is, Descartes would've been... I think he'd be rolling in his grave if he knew we were like, "Nope, no spirit." Yeah. "Mind and body are separate. Closed for discussion."
Charis: Oh my gosh. I'm so glad you brought that up. What a fun, like- Yeah ... historical it just helps to understand, like, how...
I tell people all the time we need the medical model for certain things. We do. We do. But we don't... And you were talking about the practitioner earlier who was like, "I love that idea for you." Or what about the practitioner that says something like, I don't know that much about that, but why don't you investigate that and bring it back to me and let's talk about it," right?
Gina: I love that. I love that so much. My own doctor, I see a functional medicine doctor. And she is curious about Ayurveda, right? Yeah. So we work together because she thinks it's so fascinating. Yeah. And she's even familiar with some Ayurvedic herbs, which I use with, for myself- ... and other clients, et cetera.
But I just think, this becomes like an epistemological debate where it's the history of something that we don't understand, and it's just compounded over time. Yeah ... and yeah, I think it's fascinating that you can look back and then understand that I don't think the mind and body was really ever meant to be separated.
Charis: No. It just for simplicity. Or in that sense it was for protection, right? Right. So the church could hold on to that, and that the scientists could hold on to what they were doing, and to separate it in that way has really done us such a disservice. Maybe we should talk a little bit about, I guess the way that I view this is from a nervous system standpoint. I talk a lot about the nervous system, and if you go and look and see what people are asking about the nervous system, what they're confused about the nervous system, people are really struggling, and they just wanna know what to do.
Should I do meditation? Should I do yoga? And so the... it's almost like a checklist, right? And then you give them a checklist, and then they're, like, overwhelmed because- Sure ... it's, like, all these things that you have to do, right? Like- Can you speak to this, of how something like the nervous system has a physiological part to it?
So our nervous system obviously is our physiology, 'cause it's our brain and the connection with the rest of our body. But people often, when I talk about nutrition and nervous system, they think I'm gonna give them a list of foods to eat. But really, what I usually do is are you eating? Are you eating enough?
Are you eating often enough? Not that you should eat all throughout the day, 'cause that's not the best thing for you either. Those are step one, because if you're not eating, especially in this culture of like pushing fasting... And I tell people all the time, I believe in fasting for certain purposes, certain people.
But if you have a dysregulated nervous system It is not gonna benefit you to be pushing the envelope there. So can you just speak to that, like the way that you view, like a symptom, like nervous system dysregulation, or maybe a, it's a symptom like a gut symptom. How is that physiology connected to someone's mental health?
Like- Yeah ... if someone has anxiety- Yes ... how could that be connected their, to their physiology?
Gina: Yeah. Totally. I'm so glad you asked that, and it's funny 'cause you're right, you see a lot of things on the internet that are just like, "Oh, I gotta regulate my nervous system," or, Oh ... as if it's something that.
Yeah, like it's something that you just turn on. It's literally not how it works. Yeah. So the nervous system is merely just responding and adapting to the environment that it's in, right? So it's not like, " oh, I'm just gonna do my 10 minute, 10 minute meditation to regulate my nervous system," or, "I'm gonna do this vagal massage." Right. No, no, no, no,
no. The, the nervous system is actually looking at like the 23 hours and 50 minutes of the day that you're not doing your 10-minute meditation, and then it's like learning and adapting and saying, "Oh, gosh when are we gonna eat? We never eat at the same time," or, "We wake up at random times.
Sometimes we go to bed really late," or, "Oh, I'm gonna not have breakfast today, I'm just gonna drink coffee." And then, "Oh, now I'm having anxiety and my heart is racing because I've had"- ... "perhaps now three or four cups of caffeine and I haven't eaten," and, ugh, right? And so the nervous system is now adapting to that.
So one thing that even helped me was when I stopped running around like everything was an emergency. That was something that was really helpful- ... for my nervous system, is every time I got a text message, oh, I had to respond, right? Or- ... every time the email, had to respond to the email immediately.
Everything had to be done immediately. And the nervous system then gets anxious. You start to see that in the physiology. Yeah. You can feel that in your body. So- You're training it to do that- You're training it ... basically. Yes. Yeah. And I went for a very long time without eating regularly warm, nourished meals, and not getting- enough sleep, and then waking up at 3:00 in the morning to answer emails and then, you know- ... feeling just stressed out all the time. Then what happened in the physiology, for me personally, was then elevated levels of cortisol- ... which had really detrimental effects. I then also, because I was pushing through exhaustion and fatigue, around 40, I essentially ended up with hypothyroidism And so these are things where we pretend like the nervous system and the physiology also are like two separate things, which is really fascinating- Yeah
'cause they live, again, in the same... the nervous system is literally in the physiology. Yeah. Yeah. But then I also think about people that are anxious a lot. So I can look at this through a few different lenses, right? So I can look at this... Or, like irritability for example. This is one of my favorites. From an Ayurvedic perspective, irritability is an increase of what we call pitta or heat in the body. Now, somebody with excess heat or pitta in their body could manifest, and this does happen, in different ways. One is um, for some of my clients it manifests as extreme irritability and rage.
For other clients it looks, for one client in particular, it manifested as anaphylactic shock when she was eating. Wow. Yeah. For another client it looked like horrible PMS symptoms. And for another client more rage and irritability. So I'm just thinking about this through the lens of how it manifests for certain people.
And then what's interesting is then when I go to look at their labs, sometimes I also see elevated inflammatory markers, like CRP. Which is interesting to me, right? Because it's like there's these inflammatory markers that are showing up in the blood showing inflammation, and sometimes extra heat and inflammation from an Ayurvedic- mm perspective, that's the same- ... thing, the same mechanism that we're seeing there. It's not to say that everybody that's irritable has elevated levels of CRP, but for me in my work I'm looking at correlations and patterns- ... in specific people So yeah.
Charis: I love how you brought that together. You know when you hear something, you're like, "Oh, yes, tell me more," and you're listening. And then I always try and leave people with something that is not necessarily a plan or anything like that, but just a way for them to think about this.
So the things I'm always saying are your circadian rhythm. I know you believe very much in that, and people get tired of me talking about that, but I will not stop. Because it is literally the thing that can help reset your entire physiology. And I have two teenage boys, and one of them likes to you know, stay up late and sleep late, and then is tired, right?
Not a big shock there. And so my, always my response is to go outside. I think that is just a good response. If you're feeling super low and down, going outside is one of the best things you can do. Like you mentioned before, these things are not money makers. No. They are free. And I will never stop talking about them because they really can influence things very much.
My goal for people is always start with the things that you can control And that you can do, and start there and see how your body responds. Because everybody is different and everybody is unique, and that's what makes this kind of fun, right? Like you mentioned in some of our back and forth before we started recording this, that your work is so highly individualized because- Yes
you are using some tools that you have at your disposal, but you're looking at it in this very personal way.
Gina: Yes. Yeah. And- it's interesting, my, my intake is over 150 questions. Wow. But I am looking at it through the lens of integrative medicine, health history- ... Ayurveda, diet and lifestyle.
But then also I do something very similar. So a lot of my work is informed by like, Carl Jung, Stan Grof, you know, the, the, the people who founded, Ken Wilber, the people that founded transpersonal counseling- ... transpersonal means literally beyond self. So it's also the, the school and body of knowledge that holds psychedelic integration work and things- like mystical experiences and, dreams. And so part of my intake also l- is an archetypal assessment because it's helpful m- for me to see the lens in which people choose to look at the world. And so- So like- Yes, so highly individualized. So even to your point earlier when you were saying, oh, fasting for some people, or it's the same thing- when people come to me that are interested in psychedelic integration, "Oh, I wanna go do ayahuasca." Meanwhile, their nervous system, they have severe- ... PTSD, perhaps they might be undernourished at the moment, maybe not- ... eating regularly, having severe anxiety, perhaps on some medication.
might not be the best time to go- ... do something like that where you're in the jungle purging for a couple days, right? That's something to be super mindful of is sometimes we also think like the, the extreme thing is gonna come in and save us, right? The extreme, I gotta, I need that I need it all, all the t- yeah. And that to me is also sometimes m- less is more. So when you're saying, "Oh, you know, where would you start with something?" Like, start with someone, even to your point about your son, right? Just maybe going outside. Yeah. Me, I tell people, let's start with just establishing like a routine. Yeah.
Just start there. Can we even, to, like you said earlier, can we eat three warm meals a day? Can we eat breakfast? Sometimes I'm negotiating just breakfast with people.
Charis: Sure. Absolutely. Because a routine might be different for different people, right? Yes. 'Cause some people might have a routine, but maybe the routine isn't serving them.
Oh, yes. And other people might not have a routine at all. And so it is meeting that person exactly where they are and establishing what they feel like they can handle, because that's the other thing about all of this, is like trying to do a 180 with a laundry list of do these 10 things and I'll talk to you next week doesn't work.
And- ... it's not serving anyone, right?
Gina: No, and I think that can be really overwhelming. You know- Very ... meeting people where they are. Like, I have some clients that really love a protocol and they want the checklist, they want the recipes, and I have other clients that are just- one day at a time.
Charis: And both ways are okay and great- Both ways are okay ... right? Because you are an individual. Yeah, so I would say just to, I wanna be respectful of your time, Gina. Yeah. And 'cause I feel like you and I could just talk about this forever. But let's leave people with something to think about.
So you talked about the questions earlier. Maybe we should just review those, but I would just also add whatever you are feeling, like your symptoms, your signs from your body, whatever it is, your c- complaints, sometimes people call them ear complaints. Is it a physical thing? Is it a mental or emotional thing?
Whatever that is, there is probably a connection with the other part of you, and that is okay, and don't let anyone ever dismiss that. So just start to get really thoughtful for yourself and start to pay attention. Yeah. That's probably step one, right? What would you- Yeah ... add to that?
Gina: I totally agree with that.
I totally agree. I think assume that things are related. Because our system doesn't support that, we're starting to see that, right? You hear people say, "Oh, stress contributes to heart disease," and we're like- Yeah
"Yeah, okay. Yeah, we know that. We, there's thousands of studies that say that." So I guess- Yeah ... but then it's like what do we think stress is? It's happening emotionally, but yes, physically, environmentally, so you know, all of these things contribute to the whole human experience. ... So yeah, I would say, absolutely understand that there's, there could very well be a connection between mind, body, and I'll say spirit for a lack of a better word right now, or meaning.
And then again, we're thinking about those questions. So you know, what's actually happening? What can I identify as the symptom that's coming up for me right now? And and then what's underneath it, what can I, what's behind it? M- maybe I could start to explore that. Is this chronic or is this acute?
Is this something that's been happening for a long time, or is this, am I just noticing it now? What else happens when I notice this thing? Is it affected by what I eat, what I sleep during certain parts of the day? And then the third thing, which just- Is just a kind of glimpse behind the veil, which is what might this mean in the context of my life?
Is there something that my life is trying to show me? That is a big takeaway. Is there something in my life, is there something my life is trying to show me? Sometimes we think, "Oh, I'm just tired all the time. I'm just tired all the time." Okay, w- what might it be pointing to? What might it be pointing to?
Charis: Yeah. Those are just wonderful questions. It's... The, the word curiosity popped into my mind- Yeah ... when you were saying that, right? It's just a- Yes ... curiosity. It's not like an assignment. It's not a job. It's not a list. It's just literally curiosity. So if you're listening to this and you wanna dive deeper on this, you can start with those questions.
Also, information about how you could work with Gina is gonna be in the show notes. But Gina, do you wanna talk just for a few minutes about the program and the way that you do work with people one on one?
Gina: Yeah, of course. I work with people in sort of two ways.
One is through a private engagement. So I work with people at three months at a time. And that looks like a couple 90-minute sessions every month. It looks like diet and lifestyle protocols. It looks like exploring even spirituality, which I think is really interesting. I find some of my clients are looking for permission to explore spirituality without being handed an ideology or a dogma or somebody else's religion.
They just want to play. Um- yeah. Love it ... and that's a fun way um, to explore. And then the other way is for people who are locally in Chattanooga. I'm in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Cool. So for people who are locally, I work with something called the Lucia Light. So I do psychedelic integration with the light.
It's a um stroboscopic little sort of flashing light that takes people to a hypnagogic state, so somewhere between a dream and a meditation it's a fun way for people to explore a more meditative or dreamlike state. Some things come up from the unconscious- ... that are fun to explore, and that's also within the container of psychedelic integration as well.
Charis: Cool. Very fun. I am just super excited to read your chapter. When this comes out, the e-book will be coming out in about a week or so, so we'll obviously have information about that, too the Integrated Bodies book. And I just can't thank you enough for being here and sharing all of your wonderful thoughts and work that you're doing and I hope you just have a wonderful rest of your day.
Yes. Thank you so much for this opportunity. This was lovely. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome.
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