Charis & Andrea
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Andrea: [00:00:00] A lot of people can even come in and they know the problem.
I know I [00:00:05] have anxiety. I know I'm safe. Why does my body keep [00:00:10] responding with all of these signals that there's some sort of threat or [00:00:15] alarm going off?
[00:00:20]
Charis: Welcome back to the Harness Your Health podcast. I am [00:00:25] here with another special guest today, who wrote a chapter for the book Integrated [00:00:30] Bodies, Andrea Meier.
Andrea, thank you for being here.
Andrea: Thank you so much for [00:00:35] having me. I'm excited.
Charis: Absolutely. I've had a lot of fun interviewing all the [00:00:40] different collabor- I bet you have ... collaborators. Yeah. Yeah. It's been really fun. [00:00:45] So it's cool to f- I think if I would have just read the book, which I have pretty [00:00:50] much now because we have, the initial copy of the e-book, I [00:00:55] think if I would've just read it and hadn't had these personal conversations with people, it would've been [00:01:00] different.
So I think it's fun that I'm also recording these and when people [00:01:05] can read the book and then also go back and watch the podcast on YouTube or [00:01:10] listen to it,
Andrea: absolutely. I'm so glad we could all do this.
Charis: Yeah. I know, it's really [00:01:15] neat. Would you just tell us a little bit about what you do professionally? Yeah.
Andrea: [00:01:20] Absolutely. So I've been a licensed therapist for over 20 years now, both a [00:01:25] mental health and addiction therapist, and have worn a lot of different hats in my [00:01:30] career along the way.
But for the past few years, I've been the founder and clinical [00:01:35] director of the Holistic & Integrative Collective here in Charleston, South [00:01:40] Carolina. So work with a bunch of therapists here in Charleston. Also do a [00:01:45] lot of presenting and writing and have a strong background in research. So [00:01:50] quite a few hats along the way. But I've found my happy place here in Charleston.
Charis: That's so [00:01:55] fun. I love it.
Andrea: Yeah.
Charis: Most people know by now, but if the th- this is the first time you're hearing [00:02:00] about this book really is a holistic collaborative effort from a bunch of different [00:02:05] professionals with differing things to, that they're experts in.
And so [00:02:10] holistic is really that driving theme of it, and I feel like I don't really hear about [00:02:15] that when it comes to therapy as much. Yeah. So can you maybe just explain that [00:02:20] a little bit?
Andrea: Yeah. I think when people think about therapy, they think [00:02:25] about managing a symptom.
So somebody might come in, and they're talking about [00:02:30] anxiety or an issue in a relationship or an issue in their career.
And so I [00:02:35] think a lot of times traditional talk therapy is about working with the symptom or the [00:02:40] presenting problem. But over the years that I've been, doing this work and clinical [00:02:45] research and so forth I think it's a much bigger landscape and a much bigger picture [00:02:50] than just the symptom management.
So when we think about, and I think [00:02:55] holistic is a little bit of a buzzword at the moment. But what we really think about is this sort of [00:03:00] integration of the mind, the body, and the spirit. And spirit doesn't need to necessarily [00:03:05] mean a formalized religion per se, but more of spiritual connection- [00:03:10] purpose, meaning. So a lot of the work that we do here in the Collective is looking at the whole [00:03:15] person not just the symptom and what's under that: lifestyle, [00:03:20] relationships. So there's, there, there's a lot that goes in. But that's why we [00:03:25] include holistic, in, in our title of our Collective.
Charis: The way I explain it to, to [00:03:30] people too is that if you have anxiety, for example, you [00:03:35] might go and seek out support from a therapist or someone- ... to help you with that. [00:03:40] But if you're looking at it in a holistic way, you're zooming out and looking at- Absolutely[00:03:45]
how is that symptom affecting your whole life. So- Yes ... like you [00:03:50] mentioned, relationships. How does it affect your physical body? What [00:03:55] symptoms are you having in addition to the anxiety? Absolutely. My whole chapter in my, [00:04:00] in the book was about the parasympathetic nervous system and digestion. Yeah.
And so [00:04:05] as you know, I mean, it's very connected. I think a lot of times in our Western [00:04:10] culture, we get so siloed into looking at things very separately.
[00:04:15] And when people start to think about things holistically, it's almost feels a little [00:04:20] bit more confusing, but it also eventually has a [00:04:25] clarity to it and I think where people feel this acceptance for like, [00:04:30] "Oh, I had no idea- Yeah ... that this was really [00:04:35] affecting me so much." Oh. Do you see that?
Andrea: I absolutely see that, and that oh [00:04:40] moment or that aha moment. And just how interconnected things truly are.
[00:04:45] And so that's where we don't necessarily just go into symptom management.
We go into the whole [00:04:50] picture, right? And what's underneath driving, and also, how is the [00:04:55] symptom impacting the- ... the larger scale of life, like you're saying.
Charis: So in a [00:05:00] holistic way, someone wouldn't give you a medicine for your anxiety. They [00:05:05] wouldn't give you, they might, maybe help you with a tool, a breathing tool or something like that- [00:05:10] Sure
to manage it in the moment, but the focus is also [00:05:15] on supporting all of your body's -
Andrea: Whole system,
Charis: yes ... whole system. To- [00:05:20] Yes allow the body to also intuitively [00:05:25] balance and come together to support you because That's another thing [00:05:30] that people often think that we have to be, like, constantly intervening.
Today, [00:05:35] I have anxiety. Tomorrow, I have bloating. And then so it's like this Whac-A-Mole [00:05:40] thing.
Even in a functional way or an integrative way.
Andrea: Oh, [00:05:45] 100%. 100%. That's why we go into, the work that we do here [00:05:50] also is into integrative care. That it's not just one piece. It's a bigger system [00:05:55] that we're working with. And I think, I don't know if it's okay to go into this at the [00:06:00] moment, right? But, when you think about traditional talk therapy that's my [00:06:05] specialty is the therapy end of things.
Is that when we think about traditional talk [00:06:10] therapy we think about, this part of the brain. This is an isolated part of the [00:06:15] neocortex. This is where, like- ... logic, reasoning, rational, thought is [00:06:20] located. And so a lot of people can even come in and they know the [00:06:25] problem.
They know I ha- I know I have anxiety. I know I'm [00:06:30] safe. Why does my body keep responding with all of these [00:06:35] signals that there's some sort of threat or alarm going off? And that's over my [00:06:40] career really have worked to learn more about integrative approaches of, like, [00:06:45] how do we get to more of that subcortical deep brain.
If I know [00:06:50] and I see it and I understand it, it's really about supporting, that deep brain, [00:06:55] the nervous system in that healing. So that the, the body and, other parts of the [00:07:00] system, like holistically can help release.
Charis: I think people that, like you [00:07:05] said, the knowing, they definitely know, they understand. They're like, "I get it. This is an issue [00:07:10] for me," but they can't tap into that for some reason. But there's [00:07:15] also a number of people, and I put myself in this category years ago, [00:07:20] who didn't even know.
I might have a, some physical symptoms, or I might have [00:07:25] some moments where I'm like have certain thoughts or whatever, but I don't even really [00:07:30] realize- ... how it's affecting my nervous system. And- Oh,
Andrea: [00:07:35] absolutely.
Charis: Y-
Andrea: do you- Absolutely ... see
Charis: that
Andrea: also? I do. I do. And so we [00:07:40] work with a lot of different individuals.
Or, and couples and families that come in. But the [00:07:45] first piece is the knowing. Yeah. It's being able to conceptualize or [00:07:50] understand maybe, like, why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling or where this is coming from. And [00:07:55] that's part of the process. But for a lot of folks, that might not be enough.
[00:08:00] To actually facilitate the healing. And that's where I know that something still [00:08:05] feels stuck comes up.
And so there's different approaches like we lean into [00:08:10] to help in that healing. And that's really about supporting the nervous system to [00:08:15] learn to come back to safety.
Charis: Yeah. That's basically what you wrote your chapter [00:08:20] about, right? It is. It is. From survival to safety. So why don't we jump into [00:08:25] that? I'd love that ... the whole nervous system I feel like that's almost a buzzword- It [00:08:30] is. It is ... these days too. And there's groups on Facebook that have hundreds of thousands of [00:08:35] people in them- that are, like, trying to h- support their nervous systems. So I think people [00:08:40] have an understanding now of what that means. But could you break it down to [00:08:45] us? You just explained it that the nervous system is running the show without us really even [00:08:50] recognizing it. How do you start... if you had a, a client that had [00:08:55] anxiety or was really struggling in their life, i've been talking to a lot of women [00:09:00] in their midlife these days, and that perimenopausal time and- Oh, yes ... all [00:09:05] the different things. So your body is changing, but then also we have life changes.
Like you and I were [00:09:10] talking about kids going off to school. Yes. Parents who are aging. [00:09:15] So there's a lot of different factors that are coming into play, but where would you- Oh, absolutely ... start [00:09:20] with someone with the nervous system? Helping them understand it .
Andrea: [00:09:25] Yeah. I typically start by just talking about, like, how cool and how fascinating [00:09:30] right, the nervous system is.
Like- Yeah ... how just intelligent it is. [00:09:35]
Charis: Yeah.
Andrea: And the nervous system it's like it's ... it's always learning.
And it [00:09:40] picks up on all of the cues around us, from the things that are said to us [00:09:45] to, body language, to signals in the environment. And that [00:09:50] starts so young.
That starts, like, baby-baby. [00:09:55] Yeah. Before we even know, our nervous system is picking up on all of those [00:10:00] cues. Yeah. And I won't get into ... I could get into all the weeds of the nervous system. Trust [00:10:05] me, right? Something I wanna mention is that the nervous system also cues our [00:10:10] amygdala.
And our amygdala's that little bean in the middle of the brain that tells us [00:10:15] whether there's threat or crisis. And it's meant to help support us if the house is on [00:10:20] fire. Or we're getting chased by a bear. But there's a lot of misfirings that can start [00:10:25] happening over time that start, like, sending these cues through the [00:10:30] nervous system activation up to the amygdala- Mm-hmm of threat, of [00:10:35] danger. So maybe how somebody looked at me in that meeting I was just in. I don't know. [00:10:40] There's so many examples here. Or-
Charis: Like an argument with someone ...
Andrea: an argument with somebody. It's
Charis: just [00:10:45] blown up.
Andrea: Blown up, right? Yeah. And it starts firing just like I'm getting chased by [00:10:50] that bear or the house is on fire.
And part of it, again, we're trying to help soothe that nervous [00:10:55] system and retrain, like, safety and what's actually threat versus maybe [00:11:00] more of a feeling that's coming up of threat. But something I talk to clients a lot [00:11:05] about, again, are those early years. You know- I do a lot of work with trauma and [00:11:10] anxiety- ... high-performing women in particular, individuals. But that foundation [00:11:15] of childhood, ... is that, we're picking up on all of these [00:11:20] cues from our parents, from our home environment, from the school, from our peers.
[00:11:25] And our nervous system is responding in a very intelligent way to [00:11:30] perceive threats. A- am I safe? Is somebody gonna leave? Is somebody gonna come [00:11:35] when I cry?... Or I skin my knee? And that nervous system learns how to [00:11:40] adapt. And it can help learn over time how to protect us? That nervous system works [00:11:45] really hard to keep us safe.
Charis: So I think when I first heard about [00:11:50] this, I probably learned about it, like, when I took Psychology 101 or something like that.
Exactly. [00:11:55] But I think more recently when I first, started thinking about this more, it [00:12:00] almost feels overwhelming, i'm in my 50s. I heard the term or the [00:12:05] saying that it's, like, all, everything has happened by the age of seven. Yeah. That's where it [00:12:10] ingrained it or whatever.
You could probably explain it better. But to me that felt [00:12:15] overwhelming, be like, how can I actually go back and, like-
Andrea: Yeah ...
Charis: [00:12:20] sort through these things and things that I might not even understand. My parents are [00:12:25] gone. I can't talk to them about anything that happened. I don't think there was anything [00:12:30] super traumatic in my case, but what if there was other things. That were signaling [00:12:35] that stressor in the nervous system. So how do you... Without, I'm [00:12:40] sure it's very complex. But, like- ... how could you give someone hope, I guess-
Andrea: Yes ...
Charis: [00:12:45] that it's possible to, when you're in midlife, to [00:12:50] actually go back and sort through some of these things and help your your [00:12:55] nervous system?
Andrea: Absolutely. And the, most of the population that I work [00:13:00] with at the, the present moment are midlife. It's a lot of women in particular, men [00:13:05] too, coming in 40s, 50s in particular. Like- ... perimenopause or some [00:13:10] sort of identity kind of- crisis, and so I get that. And that [00:13:15] maybe hopeless feeling of, I can't go back. I can't go back. It's too late. I'm too [00:13:20] broken.
Charis: Long time ago.
Andrea: It's a long time ago. Yeah. And you're right, we can't, [00:13:25] right? We can't go backwards.
But the work that I do, it's really about, that whole [00:13:30] survival to safety. It's like- ... how can we help that nervous system [00:13:35] learn to become safe. Learn to embrace that felt [00:13:40] sense of safety. Safety isn't something we know, safety is a felt [00:13:45] sense.
And so that's where a lot of the work that we build into isn't always [00:13:50] just the traditional talk therapy. It's really about how do we embody it. Gotcha. And [00:13:55] so there's a lot of different ingredients or approaches that we can pull in here, [00:14:00] and that's where it becomes integrative of integrating different ingredients to the [00:14:05] recipe.
But approaches like EMDR, which is eye movement [00:14:10] desensitization and reprocessing, parts work, somatic [00:14:15] therapy, brain spotting and I could list a lot more, including [00:14:20] ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. It really allows in the work that we're doing [00:14:25] to be able to get to that more nervous system subconscious [00:14:30] level.
And through those, approaches that we do together it's [00:14:35] about not just talking about it, but it's giving the system [00:14:40] the opportunity to reprocess things in a safe way [00:14:45] and allow that system to feel safe doing it.
Charis: So in hearing you say this, [00:14:50] it actually makes me feel relief. Because it's like I don't have to think my [00:14:55] way- No
out of this. It's like you can go and have a conversation with someone [00:15:00] you trust, and then tap into these different things. You mentioned somatics, [00:15:05] and I have just learned this with my own self and just, in, [00:15:10] I don't know, just in talking to different experts that release, if you're [00:15:15] stuck or you're down or you're whatever, just moving your [00:15:20] body- can be one of the most supportive things you can do. Absolutely. It's [00:15:25] so interesting. I think where I really started realizing this was [00:15:30] during COVID. And so everyone's at home. My kids aren't in [00:15:35] school. My husband works in the hospital we were, maybe on a little bit tighter lockdown, if you [00:15:40] will.
They weren't even seeing friends in the neighborhood really for a while. They were [00:15:45] sad about that. And so I think intuitively I was like, "Go outside. [00:15:50] Run around. Ride your bike," yeah. Like-
Andrea: Move, move ...
Charis: something. Yeah, [00:15:55] exactly. Can you see that in real time help people?
Like-
Andrea: [00:16:00] Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's what's really beautiful about some of these [00:16:05] approaches, like including somatic and even like the EMDR parts work and so forth, [00:16:10] is that we're not stuck just talking about it.
Charis: Yeah.
Andrea: Which- 'Cause
Charis: sometimes it's [00:16:15] hard
Andrea: It's really hard. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
And so these are much more experiential [00:16:20] in using different parts of the brain, the nervous system, our body. To be [00:16:25] able to release stored traumas or life experiences or [00:16:30] threat signals.
Charis: Yeah.
Andrea: So we can come back to ourselves.
Charis: Yeah. Would [00:16:35] just say, and maybe you could add anything to this, like what I have to tell people [00:16:40] is go outside.
Walk in the back- in your backyard, in your front yard, whatever [00:16:45] you have. We're... Our house is at the end of a block road. And walk down the road- [00:16:50] Yes ... around the block. If you have a little mini rebounder, jump on that. Like- Yes ... there's so many [00:16:55] different things you can do.
Andrea: Absolutely.
Charis: Jumping jacks.
Andrea: Yes.
Charis: Run up and down the [00:17:00] stairs, all
Andrea: of the above. Yeah. Yeah. And I've seen clients like drop and do some [00:17:05] burpees.
Charis: Yeah. Yeah, it gets your heart rate up, right? And then you're like It almost shakes you out [00:17:10] of that
Andrea: And I call that the snap. When we're in like a bit of a like a nervous system [00:17:15] hijack. Yeah. We can use some of these things to help snap it.
Charis: Yeah. 'Cause I know for [00:17:20] myself, if I'm feeling like down or stuck or like overwhelmed, I just wanna [00:17:25] be like, and you have to force yourself to just get to that point. But- Yes ... I use [00:17:30] my dog a lot. Okay. So she just doesn't wanna be like laying around, so if I ever am [00:17:35] like that, I just follow her and she just goes outside, ah,
Andrea: yes. She's a good accountability [00:17:40] buddy. She
Charis: is. Yeah.
Absolutely. It's helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Because you don't always know, like, when [00:17:45] it's gonna hit you too.
Andrea: No. And a lot of us aren't even attuned to our bodies.
Charis: [00:17:50] Yeah.
Andrea: Yeah. Like, how many of us are walking around braced?
Not knowing braced [00:17:55] for what, but- but-
...
Andrea: It's stored.
Yeah ... you're not necessarily even aware of [00:18:00] it.
Charis: So for me, it was like snapping at people. Mostly my family. Yeah. Oh, yeah. [00:18:05] And then you're like, "Wow, why did I do that?" I'm like, I don't feel Or what they said or what [00:18:10] they asked wasn't even that big of a deal. Exactly. It's just like- my response [00:18:15] to it. And I, I have heard people say before, and I do think this is very true, especially with [00:18:20] kids, is that you act a little differently with the people you feel safest [00:18:25] with or closest to. So sometimes it's a little bit more extreme, that's
Andrea: so true. You [00:18:30] know- because typically we feel safer.
Charis: So you like feel like you can say to your mom, [00:18:35] scream at your mom about something. And I remember saying to my kids at some point "You don't treat your [00:18:40] teachers like this, right?" Oh,
Andrea: yes.
Charis: And they're like, "No, definitely not. I would never scream at a [00:18:45] teacher."
I'm like, "Okay, good." But it hurts a little bit to- It does ... or have them- I'm
Andrea: [00:18:50] glad you feel safe,
Charis: but- Yeah.
Andrea: Yeah.
Charis: Exactly. Yeah, it's almost [00:18:55] like you have to just understand what's going on as a mom- Oh, absolutely ... to be like, okay, [00:19:00] they're just, I'm their safe place. It's not probably about me. Or even if it is about me, [00:19:05] is that they're just getting it out and-
Andrea: Right
it's like- But how many of us even pause to check in with [00:19:10] ourselves?
Because these things in the system are just like rapid firing.
Like in a [00:19:15] snap. And it's not, we're not aware as these, these are happening.
Charis: Yeah.
Andrea: There's a [00:19:20] power in just like pausing periodically and checking in- Yes with ourselves.
Charis: Oh, yeah.
Andrea: How are [00:19:25] my thoughts? How are my emotions? How is my body?
Charis: Yeah. And I think [00:19:30] sometimes too, that people feel like it's a little scary to go [00:19:35] there. Do you find that too?
Andrea: Oh, yeah. I think people, [00:19:40] generally show up pretty nervous. Yeah. And that's understandable.
I'm, I think sometimes I'm [00:19:45] more surprised when people aren't. Sure ... but then I think people can feel even more [00:19:50] nervous or anxious. Like, when you think about, like it's one thing to be able to, okay, I can talk to [00:19:55] you, right? But when we start going to some of these approaches, again, to this [00:20:00] other part where we're asking the subconscious to lead, that can feel even more vulnerable.
Charis: [00:20:05] Like things- 'Cause things might come up- Come up ... that I'm scared to tell you. Yeah.
Andrea: Yeah. That maybe I [00:20:10] don't even know is there. I hear that a lot. Yeah. Like what if there's something I don't remember?
Charis: [00:20:15] Yeah. Yeah. I believe this really pretty much with everything, that baby stepping your [00:20:20] way into change and even and especially with anything with health related, [00:20:25] so this is mental health any ki- holistic health, is really if you were just to find [00:20:30] a therapist on the internet, go meet them in their office the next day, just dive [00:20:35] into it. It just feels a little abrupt. There's a lot of instant gratification that we have in [00:20:40] our society.
Oftentimes it's from just the online experience, but also just [00:20:45] the way we can get whatever we want. I can get something from Amazon tonight if I order it right [00:20:50] now. And so I think a lot of times with our healing, people are, without even [00:20:55] realizing it, expecting that too. None of this happened overnight.
It's not [00:21:00] gonna change overnight. Oh, absolutely. But if you can make those baby steps-
Andrea: [00:21:05] Yes ...
Charis: to inch your way into it, then ... It's not so abrupt and [00:21:10] painful.
Andrea: Oh, 100%. And we can't rush healing.
Charis: Yeah.
Andrea: But, like, when we're [00:21:15] feeling that ur- what I find, when we're feeling that urgency, it's, again, this is this part of the [00:21:20] brain, typically leading of like, hurry up.
Hurry up. I gotta do this [00:21:25] right. I gotta ... I got I gotta meet this goal. And unfortunately in the healing work [00:21:30] that we do again, we're trying to let this part of the brain just rest for a [00:21:35] bit, and we let that deeper subconscious guide.
Charis: And to not control the process too. [00:21:40] Well-
Andrea: and that's that's really hard for folks. Yeah. 'Cause when you come back here you're [00:21:45] relinquishing that control. And that control is what we call a protector part. It wants to keep us [00:21:50] safe. If I'm in control, then things are more predictable. I won't be caught [00:21:55] off guard. Yeah.
Charis: And if you have a pattern of that, like needing that predictability, that [00:22:00] security, whatever, throughout your life, that's just gonna come.
Andrea: Oh, for sure.
Charis: But again you're [00:22:05] safe.
Now there's nothing, like, threatening your true safety right now. [00:22:10] No. No. I think sometimes thinking about it in that way, it sounds [00:22:15] silly because it's like, I'm in my home, I'm safe, I, I've always felt safe here, [00:22:20] whatever. But it does help you to even just think that sentence, I [00:22:25] think.
I'm seeing- Oh,
Andrea: absolutely. And then it's about the system being able to [00:22:30] embody that.
Yeah. But it's really, it, in the work that I do anyway is really [00:22:35] about coming back home to that safety. Because if we're operating from [00:22:40] a safe place, like a felt safe place. Then I have choice. My [00:22:45] decisions, my actions aren't being driven, again, by this [00:22:50] survival instinct- ... of I have to, or I need to, or I must. [00:22:55] To feel good enough, or seen, or important, or lovable. Yeah. It's [00:23:00] foundationally a different approach of how we show up, whether that's- Right
relationships, [00:23:05] careers, whatever it might be.
Charis: Sure. And a lot of times, I think that a lot of [00:23:10] that comes from habit. I was just looking at my notes for a second, and I don't know if I pulled this [00:23:15] out of the book or from something that you sent me, but you said the ability to [00:23:20] notice an old survival pattern without automatically obeying it.
Pause before saying [00:23:25] yes when we mean no.
Andrea: Yes.
Charis: That's a hard thing
Andrea: to do. For [00:23:30] many of us, right?
Charis: Yeah. So that's something you could think about. So I think maybe [00:23:35] as I read these as a, from a l- listener's standpoint, if you just pick [00:23:40] one of these that you're like, "Maybe I'll, I will think about this- Yes
and how I could use this in my life," so-
Andrea: [00:23:45] Absolutely ...
Charis: pause before saying yes when you mean no. Ask for help [00:23:50] without shame. How do you actually do that, Andrea? If that's a hard thing [00:23:55] for you.
Andrea: And a lot of the work I do comes from my own life experiences. [00:24:00] Let's just be brutally honest there.
Charis: We all have them.
Andrea: But, that, again, that [00:24:05] s- that ingrained belief that my needs don't [00:24:10] matter.
Or somebody will abandon me, or leave me, or reject me if I don't [00:24:15] give them what they want.
Charis: Yeah, or I demand too much or
Andrea: ask too much. Or I demand too much, I [00:24:20] ask too much. I'm too much.
Charis: Yeah.
Andrea: Yeah. And so part of it [00:24:25] is being able to shake up a little bit. Like, where did those beliefs come from. And part [00:24:30] of that is the survival. Like, how did your nervous system learn to survive that- in that [00:24:35] way. The adaptation is do not say no. Do [00:24:40] not ask for help. And when we try to say no, I might know it's okay, now [00:24:45] I'm getting hot. I'm getting nervous. I'm, like- Yeah ... stuttering. Heart's
Charis: beating.
Andrea: My [00:24:50] heart is beating. Oh, God, they're- Yeah ... gonna be mad at me.
And so that's where we do the work to [00:24:55] again, train the nervous system that it is safe. It is safe and I can take up space [00:25:00] here.
Charis: Yeah.
One thing I taught my boys from a pretty young age is [00:25:05] that if someone asks you something that you don't wanna do, like a, a peer or just [00:25:10] trying to, a kid's on the playground or something, and you don't wanna do it and you're gonna say no, just [00:25:15] take a deep breath. And so that's regulating to your nervous system. It [00:25:20] feels like it gives you the power to be like, "No, I'm not gonna do that," and it's a [00:25:25] boundary.
Andrea: It is a boundary, and boundaries are so important. It is such, [00:25:30] like- A critical life skill.
But with that encouragement of take the breath. [00:25:35] That's the pause.
Charis: Yeah.
Andrea: The pause before the reflex of the [00:25:40] nervous system or, you know- ... the system being like, "Yes, sure- ... no problem,"
Charis: [00:25:45] right? So maybe as an action step for a listener, it could be just [00:25:50] pausing- or taking a deep breath, which is the pause, as you mentioned. Yeah. I love that. Before [00:25:55] reacting to something, if you have a person in your life that pushes your buttons- Oh, yeah ... this [00:26:00] is, can be a big one. Yeah. So those are two really im- important things you can [00:26:05] do.
One of the things, the survival patterns that we were talking about you wrote [00:26:10] to rest without guilt. Yeah. This was really hard for me. I- Yeah ... I [00:26:15] think I felt like doing, it was, like, what I was supposed to do.
Andrea: Yep.
Charis: And [00:26:20] rest was only when you passed out at the end of the day.
Andrea: And I hear that all the [00:26:25] time, what I'm supposed- to do. And it's like let's get curious about that. Yeah. 'Cause a [00:26:30] lot of healing, we need to be curious also. Where did that come from. But those [00:26:35] narratives that, rest is lazy. Rest is for the weak. I should be able to [00:26:40] do more.
The vast majority of the clients I work with are, like, professionals, and they're [00:26:45] high-achieving. So they've got a lot of these narratives ingrained and when you [00:26:50] start peeling back the layers is that survival? Something that's been, you know, [00:26:55] adapted in our system, like a, an invisible rule.
Or is that your [00:27:00] choice?
Charis: And sometimes it's... I think it's also 'cause of habit. Oh, for sure. You would, you, if [00:27:05] you asked someone, you'd say, "Are you making that choice?" "Oh, no, that's not what I want," but [00:27:10] it's just become a habit, and so you d- literally don't know any different.
Andrea: Oh, [00:27:15] absolutely.
Charis: And there can be physiological things going on with this too, but-
I [00:27:20] absolutely do agree that it's it's so interesting to [00:27:25] take a step back. I think that's what I'm hearing from you, is really one of the best [00:27:30] things that anyone can do and take away from this, and is to [00:27:35] make that pause. Yeah. Think it through. I was in a meeting last night, [00:27:40] and all these ideas were coming up, and I've gotten way better about not saying [00:27:45] yes to everything.
And no one was really asking the question, will you do this? [00:27:50] But I knew that it was gonna come eventually. And so I already started thinking in my [00:27:55] mind, thinking, "You don't have to respond to this today. This can be a [00:28:00] conversation for later." You can think about it, you can sleep on it, whatever, [00:28:05] right?
And so I was trying to remind myself that in my head [00:28:10] while I'm listening- Yeah ... to this conversation.
Andrea: Yes, and we need to be reminding [00:28:15] ourselves. We need to be pausing to check in, of like what is coming up for me, where is [00:28:20] this coming, what do I actually wanna do- ... what do I actually wanna say?
Charis: And with [00:28:25] love. for ourselves, not like with what... because you're too busy or you can't handle [00:28:30] that or you this or you that. It's like- ... is that the best thing for you? Is that really what [00:28:35] you want?
Andrea: Yeah. But I say it all the time, like the power of a pause. That's good.
Yeah ... and like [00:28:40] having even like on a sticky note like the three or four things to check in with yourself about during [00:28:45] those- Yeah ... pauses. And building in some of the rituals and routines to your day to help [00:28:50] build some new muscle groups. So those old habits don't keep reflexing.
[00:28:55] Yeah. That we're giving some, training to respond differently.
Just feel-
Charis: Yeah, and it's amazing [00:29:00] how the momentum happens. If you just start practicing this- your body responds pretty [00:29:05] quickly. Like even though you might be in middle age and things have happened for many [00:29:10] decades, i've noticed that if you just start putting that boundary [00:29:15] up or just start having that conversation in your mind or the pausing, [00:29:20] like it does get some momentum, and you notice yourself doing it more and [00:29:25] more without trying that hard.
Andrea: Oh, absolutely. But usually the hardest is getting [00:29:30] started.
Charis: Just the- Right ... taking action.
Andrea: Absolutely. Yeah. Because we're scared. Of all the what [00:29:35] ifs.
Charis: Yeah. I think one of my favorite phrases about that is you can't [00:29:40] steer a parked car. So true. So if you wanna steer in a certain direction [00:29:45] and go- Yes ... "I wanna go this way"-
Andrea: Yeah ...
Charis: nothing's happening if you're not
Andrea: moving.
Nothing is gonna happen. [00:29:50] No. And what? You stay stuck.
Charis: Exactly. You're just in the same spot. [00:29:55] Yeah. Yeah. We could keep talking about this for another hour. Me too.
Andrea: I would love that.
Charis: But I know we don't [00:30:00] have the time. Andrea, but I know I wanna respect your time. Can you tell us a little bit about the clinic some of [00:30:05] the things, wonderful things you guys have going on there?
Of course. We'll put a link in the show [00:30:10] notes, how to get a hold of you and get in touch with you- Yes ... about the book, of course. [00:30:15] Excellent. And yeah, would love to hear
Andrea: more. Yeah. We're a, a holistic and integrative [00:30:20] collective here in Charleston South Carolina, and we've got some wonderful therapists [00:30:25] that are all trained and experienced in more of this integrative work that I've talked about.
[00:30:30] And we love supporting the whole, the, the whole life spectrum [00:30:35] from, teens and young adults all the way up, to older adults, couples, [00:30:40] families. And we kinda go beyond the traditional talk therapy. We go beyond [00:30:45] from, symptom management to really whole person care with a big emphasis on [00:30:50] sort of that embodiment of safety.
And I could go into all the different directions about [00:30:55] that, but I think that's a good- Okay ... enough concise representation. Yeah ... and I'm [00:31:00] just thrilled about this chapter that's coming out and the book that's coming out. It's [00:31:05] really this framework that I've been working for, years and years on, so I'm really excited to [00:31:10] share it with everybody.
Charis: Yeah. It's... it was a wonderful chapter. It's been fun to read [00:31:15] everyone's chapters. Yes. And I can't wait to get the actual book and hold it in my [00:31:20] hand. I know. I'm
Andrea: so
Charis: excited. Yeah. It's gonna be neat. I have so much [00:31:25] gratitude for Jess for bringing us all together. It's been lovely. These people that I never [00:31:30] would've met most likely.
No. And it's just been such a wonderful [00:31:35] experience so far, and I think it's just gonna continue on, I
Andrea: couldn't agree more. It's been a [00:31:40] blessing.
Charis: Yeah. Thank you for being here.
Andrea: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Charis: [00:31:45] Absolutely.
The information shared on this podcast is for educational and [00:31:50] informational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. I am not a [00:31:55] medical doctor, and this content is not intended to diagnose, treat, [00:32:00] cure, or prevent any disease. Please consult with a qualified healthcare professional [00:32:05] before making any decisions related to your health, especially if you have a medical condition [00:32:10] or are taking medications
