Charis & Claire
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Claire: [00:00:00] We all got sent to the good girl school unconsciously, of course.
But, good girls don't ask for [00:00:05] what they want.
Good girls just sit there, and they smile, and they help other people, and the w- [00:00:10] and the girls that did ask for what they want or do tend to be labeled as [00:00:15] bossy or aggressive.
[00:00:20]
Charis: Welcome back to the Harness Your Health podcast. I am [00:00:25] here with Claire Sewell today. Claire, thank you so much for being here.
Claire: Thank you for [00:00:30] inviting me. I'm so excited for this conversation.
Charis: Yeah, so I have lost track where [00:00:35] we're at with how many people, but you are another contributor in the Integrated [00:00:40] Bodies book.
Yes. And I am doing this whole series right now on the podcast inviting [00:00:45] the authors to come on, so thank you. And you are in the UK, so I feel [00:00:50] like the time challenge sometimes is there, but we made it work.
Claire: We've nailed [00:00:55] it.
Charis: Yeah. No problem. Awesome. So do you wanna just tell [00:01:00] everybody who you are and what you do professionally?
Claire: Yeah. So I'm Claire Sewell, as you said. Thank you so much, and you [00:01:05] nailed the name. Well done.
Charis: Yay.
Claire: I'm founder of a, a coaching business called Swell Coach, [00:01:10] and I work with female founders, entrepreneurs, and senior business leaders to help them overcome [00:01:15] their fear of sales so they can grow their business be more impact in the [00:01:20] world, which is what they, what they desire and what they're designed to do, and share their message.
[00:01:25] So yeah, there's a lot of ... Oftentimes people wanna start their business, and they get really excited about [00:01:30] sharing their message and their gifts and their ex- expertise in the world, but the big block can be [00:01:35] sales. "I don't wanna feel too pushy. I don't wanna feel too salesy." And so there's a lot of thinking around that.
So [00:01:40] I work with women to help them overcome that.
Charis: That's so amazing. We talked [00:01:45] obviously a little bit before we started recording, and I shared with you that I teach at the Nutrition [00:01:50] Therapy Institute, and this is just a very common theme with students. And we [00:01:55] talked about the fact that many people who women in particular, but then also [00:02:00] women who want to help others in coaching or a health related career [00:02:05] are often empaths, and they kind of- struggle with that sales piece, [00:02:10] right? So mm-hmm ...Do you wanna talk a little bit more about that? You were mentioning basically [00:02:15] that those two things can collide, right?
Claire: Yeah. Yeah, my, my [00:02:20] experience, so I was in the corporate world f- in sales for 20 years, and had a very successful [00:02:25] sales career.
And so when I left the corporate world back in 2016, '17, I think it was, to [00:02:30] start my own coaching business, the last thing I thought I would struggle with was [00:02:35] sales.
But selling another person's product service is very different to selling your own, [00:02:40] and we tend to get in our heads, right? And so what selling revealed to me was what was [00:02:45] my relationship with myself, with my ability to deliver, value and [00:02:50] as you say, a lot of people that go into coaching and they wanna create [00:02:55] impact and service and, m- make a difference in the world, they are empaths.
They [00:03:00] care a lot about what other people are feeling, and they feel it themselves. But there's a lot of projection that can come from [00:03:05] that. So if someone's feeling insecure about themselves, which is what I was, like, "Can I really do this?"
"Who am I [00:03:10] to, coach other people?" There was all that sort of thinking, so I deal with self [00:03:15] psychology. And then that creates feelings of insecurity, feelings of doubt, and [00:03:20] so then we project that onto another person. If I'm feeling that and I'm talking about my stuff, then they're [00:03:25] gonna feel it, too, and then they're gonna think I'm a fraud."
And there's all this thinking and feeling stuff. [00:03:30] And so that stops us or makes us maybe not stop, but holds us [00:03:35] back- ... from sharing our message really passionately. So we go, "Oh, maybe do you [00:03:40] want this possibly?" Or, "This is what I do," we hold back. And people sense that [00:03:45] energy of holding back.
How we show up in our energy speaks volumes over what we say 'cause [00:03:50] we've, as human beings we're very tuned into that. I talk about the unseen side of sales, which is [00:03:55] the sales psychology. How do I see myself as a salesperson? Which most people don't think about.
If [00:04:00] I'm going t- into business, my main role is selling, right? I'm a salesperson now.
People don't think about that. So how [00:04:05] do I see myself as a salesperson? How do I feel about sales? Like body safety, do I [00:04:10] f- feel safe being seen, to be visible first, to talk about me, [00:04:15] to talk about my offer? Do I feel safe in my body, in my nervous system?
That impacts [00:04:20] my energy. That impacts how I show up. And so when we can get those three things and have a really un- [00:04:25] a really clear understanding of that, and work on that witho- in ourselves, the sales strategy [00:04:30] is the last piece. That all falls into place.
Because I could sell really well when I was selling other people.
[00:04:35] I was hugely successful. But when I came to myself, the strategy went out the window because I [00:04:40] didn't wanna talk to anyone.
Charis: I think oftentimes you... I feel like you m- talk about this a little bit in [00:04:45] your book, that especially as women or young women, girls [00:04:50] even, we're taught to minimize ourselves.
To not bring attention to ourselves, to not [00:04:55] complain. And so I think some of that underlying current is coming [00:05:00] through with that sales, or whatever it is. Absolutely. Whether you're asking for a raise, [00:05:05] where you're trying to advocate with a contractor, or your car's at the shop or [00:05:10] it could be in a relationship.
It could literally be anything. Yeah. It's that same kind [00:05:15] of process that we just feel like, like you said. Even your body posture when you [00:05:20] did it, you closed down. That's what we do.
Claire: Yeah. Yeah. I talk about in my chapter [00:05:25] about the good girl school.
We all got sent to the good girl school unconsciously, of [00:05:30] course.
But, good girls don't ask for what they want.
Good girls just sit there, and they smile, and [00:05:35] they help other people, and the w- and the girls that did ask for what they want or do [00:05:40] tend to be labeled as bossy or aggressive.
So there is a lot of [00:05:45] conditioning around this societally.
Unconsciously. It's not it's not obviously [00:05:50] conscious. overt.
Yeah. But even looking at, fairy tales. Look at [00:05:55] the way women are supposed to be and, if you're... Like, the servitude sort of mentality [00:06:00] gets the prince. ... It's really is.
And this is intergenerational, so we have to [00:06:05] really be mindful of the conditioning and break ourselves out of it. [00:06:10] And my chapter is all about, the art of feeling wildly alive, because [00:06:15] w- when I talk about breaking ourselves out of it, it's very [00:06:20] uncomfortable to go against our conditioning.
Even thinking about for women or, like [00:06:25] people in general, but mainly the challenge with women is asking for a raise, as you mentioned.
[00:06:30] We might play it over in our head for two weeks, four weeks maybe, however long, and getting, "I've got to get it right," and, [00:06:35] or, "I've got to do enough.
I've got to earn my raise," and so we do all these things, trying to be a good [00:06:40] girl, in order to go and ask for what we want because of the, it's the conditioning is [00:06:45] so deep, and we feel so uncomfortable about it. And so I really [00:06:50] wanna, a big part of my work alongside what, w- you talk about the nervous system as well, [00:06:55] right?
Is m- making us aware of that nervous system. It's the CEO of our body. If it doesn't [00:07:00] feel safe, we ain't gonna do anything. You know, We're like, "Mm." so- Yeah ... [00:07:05] I really wanna, wake people up to the importance of [00:07:10] moving through our discomfort with compassion.
Because that's, on the other side of that, [00:07:15] when we can embrace discomfort and move out of our comfort zone, to the level that we can do that [00:07:20] is to the level of joy and aliveness we can feel as well.
It goes hand in hand.
Charis: It's interesting when [00:07:25] I'm interviewing all the different contributors to the book. I'm hearing a [00:07:30] lot of the same themes. So a lot of it is about awareness as the first step. You mentioned [00:07:35] that. And in your book, or yeah, in your book chapter, you talk a lot [00:07:40] about that.
How you can't feel the joy or feel those [00:07:45] profound maybe... I don't, I was gonna call it an endpoint, but that's not fair, because it's not really an [00:07:50] endpoint, right? But just like that, what you're striving for, unless you are actually aware of [00:07:55] where you're at. And I think that oftentimes people don't wanna go [00:08:00] there 'cause it feels- scary, like you mentioned, but also feels [00:08:05] hard. You and I- ... are about the same age. A woman, I hopefully I'll live for another 30 or [00:08:10] 40 years, but we've also been alive for a while too. And- ... how do you [00:08:15] help encourage and support women at this stage in their life to [00:08:20] wanna keep pushing for that?
To strive for that when [00:08:25] they're maybe feel like they're just tired and they're not gonna push,
Claire: yeah. [00:08:30] So awareness is it sounds like a broken record, but we can't change what we're not [00:08:35] aware of, right? And so much of our life, like it's scarily so [00:08:40] much of our life, is on autopilot. So we're completely conditioned. From the moment we [00:08:45] open our eyes to people pick up their phone and start scrolling, and the brain goes back into, "This [00:08:50] is what I did yesterday. This is what I did a week before. This is what I did last year." So we're drawing [00:08:55] on- repeated behavior.
And we tend to do that because [00:09:00] we're wired for safety, we're wired for comfort.
And so anything outside [00:09:05] of our comfort zone can feel uncomfortable. And of course, we're also being [00:09:10] conditioned that, That, that conflict or tension [00:09:15] or stretching, s- anything that's stretchy, is bad. Is [00:09:20] bad for us. But to your question, like if you ask any woman what she really [00:09:25] wants, or men, like any human being what they want- they wanna be happy. They wanna have peace of [00:09:30] mind. And the misunderstanding that peace of mind is at the end of my to-do [00:09:35] list.
Or once I've, once the kids have finished school, or [00:09:40] once they go back to school, or once I've booked that holiday and I'm on the plane, [00:09:45] then I can feel relaxed and I can settle into feeling happy or feeling good or whatever.
And that's [00:09:50] the greatest misunderstanding. That whilst we're all striving for peace of mind and [00:09:55] joy and to feel alive in our lives- There is a, a freedom in [00:10:00] recognizing there's nothing to strive for. It's already here because we all know [00:10:05] we've strived for the promotions, the, the bigger house the 2.2 kids, the [00:10:10] marriage, the, whatever.
The nice car, watch, shoes, whatever. We all [00:10:15] wanted that 'cause we thought it was gonna bring us peace of mind or joy.
We've spent our entire lives chasing it, [00:10:20] and we just really stopped to explore how reality actually works. You can see that [00:10:25] doesn't... it doesn't work like that. There is no joy at the end of the to-do list.
[00:10:30] 'Cause there's always something to do. So I would say to those, those women it's all [00:10:35] available, and that's what I do in my work is it- it's available here and now in the life you [00:10:40] have. We've just gotta look at how you're living your life currently. What do you [00:10:45] believe needs to change in order for you to feel okay?
'Cause that's where we need to [00:10:50] start. That's generally what I do with my clients.
Charis: Awesome. So you mentioned [00:10:55] in something you wrote to me, I don't remember exactly if it was through [00:11:00] email or what, but you said that we've been largely conditioned by a society that believes we work from [00:11:05] the outside in, and that external situations and circumstances often affect [00:11:10] how we think and feel.
So this is exactly what you're talking about. You're talking about going [00:11:15] inward, and I think that people often think that this needs to be, like, this [00:11:20] big explosive thing that happens, right? And it doesn't need to be. It can be [00:11:25] small, simple shifts. In fact, I actually don't get on the bandwagon of [00:11:30] doing the 180 degree difference in your life, because what I've found is it [00:11:35] literally doesn't stick.
People- Yeah ... can't stick with that. They need to take the baby [00:11:40] steps and-
...
Charis: Small action every week or every month or whatever it is, [00:11:45] and just keep making progress. Would you agree with that?
Claire: 100%. [00:11:50] Because it's and not to say that 1- 180 degree shifts can't happen. Of course they can. But- you don't know [00:11:55] where a person is in their, with their nervous system, with their regulation, with, trauma, like, all of that sort [00:12:00] of stuff. And so it is just recognizing that I can do something today that's [00:12:05] different that will make a shift in the long run. We are a society that's based [00:12:10] on y- instant gratifications.
We've been- ... conditioned by notifications and [00:12:15] the red dots. If I can push, ooh, I, get an instant dopamine hit. Yeah. So we're that- that's a part [00:12:20] of the way we've been conditioned as well. And it's just getting back to recognizing that small [00:12:25] shifts- actually make a huge difference.
I think that's based on James Clear's [00:12:30] Atomic Habits, isn't it? That was a global bestseller, and he's kinda saying- ... the same thing. Small [00:12:35] shifts for the win.
Charis: Yeah. 1%. He absolutely. He showed that in the book [00:12:40] very much. I think you can hear that over and over, but then when he shows it on the graph [00:12:45] or if he talks about- Yeah
the plane, flying a tiny bit off course or something, that [00:12:50] it ends up in the other part of the country. That's- Yeah ... crazy, right? And so- Yeah ... it [00:12:55] does help you to see. And I think anyone who's experienced this, anyone who's [00:13:00] sat down and said, "I'm gonna start implementing these five practices in my [00:13:05] life, and I'm gonna do them one by one, and then I'm gonna see how I feel at the end," [00:13:10] that is really- such a powerful part of the process, is planning that [00:13:15] out and then evaluating. And how do you feel now? How did that go, [00:13:20] right?
Claire: Yeah, 'cause the other side of it as well is we, we're very much beholden to our [00:13:25] mind, again, until we get awareness- ... of how busy it is up there and how much it controls us, I [00:13:30] think.
I can't remember who it was, but someone said our mind is a wonderful master, but a terrible slave," or [00:13:35] something like that. Oh, okay. So basically we're all slaves to our mind 'cause we, as soon as it says, "Eat that cake", [00:13:40] ooh, off we go and eat the cake, or whatever.
Charis: Yeah.
Claire: And so that's why small shifts are important [00:13:45] as well because we wanna really calibrate to what's going on with the mind. If I [00:13:50] decide that I wanna get up and go walking every day for the next, or maybe let's say four [00:13:55] days a week for the next... Well, that's my new, my new regime, say.
You can bet your [00:14:00] bottom dollar tomorrow when I decide to get up and it's a bit cold, my mind's gonna go, [00:14:05] "Oh, let's start next week", "just give it a rest today. You- you're really tired." It's very [00:14:10] clever. It's very clever up there. Yeah. So that's why small shifts are important as well. You don't wanna take everything on because you [00:14:15] wanna be able to monitor, how do I respond to this- new thing? How does [00:14:20] it feel in my body? Where is my body sensing discomfort, when I think about this [00:14:25] new habit? And really monitor that. What am I thinking's gonna happen here? Where [00:14:30] does my body think it's in danger? What am I telling myself? Those are really important to start [00:14:35] catching so we can go, "Ah, I see you little sneaky thing.
No, I'm gonna do it 'cause [00:14:40] I'm committed to it",
Charis: I think what I hear a lot from women is that they make the plan. The night [00:14:45] before they might say I'm gonna walk in the morning when I get up", and then they get [00:14:50] sidetracked, like they're... by their phone, like you mentioned- ... or by something, someone else. Sometimes [00:14:55] it's kids or whatever. Something happens. They get an email and they're like, "Oh, shoot, now I have [00:15:00] to deal with this".
So how do you feel like women... you mentioned that [00:15:05] if you're not feeling motivated, then that- ... you just kinda have to make yourself do it.
I know- Yeah ... [00:15:10] Mel Robbins talks a lot about that like
Claire: there's no- Let's go. Five, four, three, two, one, isn't it?
Charis: Yeah, [00:15:15] exactly. And then you just get out of bed. Like there's- ... no other option.
Claire: Yeah. No time to listen to [00:15:20] that thing.
Charis: Exactly. So it's interesting because I think we [00:15:25] do rely a lot on our mind and what our mind is telling us, but [00:15:30] also our feelings are a par- a big part of it for a lot of people, too.
[00:15:35] Do you think that?
Claire: Yeah. So our mind inform our feeling states [00:15:40] generally. But the thing about that, where most people will say, "No, that does- [00:15:45] that's not true. I felt before my, my thinking", is because 95% of our thinking is [00:15:50] unconscious to us. That's why we're living on autopilot, pilot.
So f- only 5% of our thoughts are [00:15:55] actually conscious thoughts. So our body, we're responding to our body before we're [00:16:00] even aware what's, of the thought, and sometimes we're not even aware of it. So the s- the [00:16:05] thought-feeling connection is a really powerful one to be aware of. And Byron Katie, I [00:16:10] love her work, and she says, "When I believe my thinking, I suffer."
[00:16:15] When I recognize that thought is just happening without me even, like it's just occurring on its own, and [00:16:20] it's transient- ... and there's nothing truthful about it, then I can carry on doing what I wanna do, and it's all [00:16:25] okay, and I'm, I, and I recognize I'm safe in the moment. And that's why also it's really helpful, so if I [00:16:30] think, if we go back to sales, if I'm sitting there thinking, " Oh, I had that really good call with that [00:16:35] person, and I said I'd follow up today, but, m- maybe I haven't given her enough time.
Like maybe I'm just, I don't [00:16:40] wanna come across as pushy, so maybe I'll give her a call in a couple of days. I'll give her two more days to think about it." [00:16:45] 'Cause actually the thought about ringing her is making me feel uncomfortable. So my [00:16:50] mind comes up with a solution to get myself out of this discomfort.
" I'll give her a call in a [00:16:55] couple of days." Now that's not saying I'll never call her. It's just prolonging. "I'll give her..." And so I feel okay about that. [00:17:00] "Yeah, that's a good idea." Immediately the tension goes from my body, and I carry on with my day. But it [00:17:05] started with believing that thought. Like we're thinking like, "Oh, I'm feeling tension.
Ooh, okay, [00:17:10] let's do something about it." The mind goes, "I'll get rid of that tension for you because we're not taught to sit with tension. Here's a [00:17:15] solution. Give her a call in a couple of days."
And that's how we operate o- [00:17:20] over and over and over again. Whereas like the work that's so crucial is to start [00:17:25] recogn- like starting to not being afraid of our feeling states, not to be afraid of that [00:17:30] tension, and to recognize that the body is informing of us of something.
So what do we need to sit with? What's [00:17:35] confronting us? Let's look at that, and sit with it, and breathe through it, and all the nervous [00:17:40] system stuff that, the, the amazing work around helping our nervous system feel safe and settled in [00:17:45] this moment so that I can carry on with my goals and not let my thinking, [00:17:50] feeling state stop me.
Charis: Yes. I think this is the hard part, I think, for [00:17:55] so many people because-
Claire: Sure ...
Charis: as I mentioned earlier, they think that it maybe [00:18:00] has to be like a super deep tearing apart of your insides, if you will. [00:18:05] Get that little girl out of there that felt repressed and help her.
But I think what [00:18:10] people need to realize is that when you take these slow actionable steps, it [00:18:15] doesn't actually feel quite so bad. I talk to my kids about this a lot, is saying [00:18:20] something to someone when they say something inappropriate. The more times you do that or [00:18:25] if you make a comment about that, the easier it is, you know- to not hold it [00:18:30] in and then feel like, "Oh, I wish I wouldn't have said, would've said something." They were talking [00:18:35] about that person in a not very nice way or whatever. You just have to take [00:18:40] action. One of my favorite phrases is you can't steer a parked car.
I love it. And it's [00:18:45] literally like the parked car isn't going anywhere. And so- Yeah ... you literally just have to [00:18:50] take some forward momentum to make- Mm ...... things actually happen.
Claire: [00:18:55] Yeah, and I think that's why becoming aware of our, of our feeling [00:19:00] states is really helpful because unless we're aware that there's [00:19:05] tension- Because I'm in my, I'm in an, a, out of my comfort [00:19:10] zone, let's say- then I will just shift to going back to doing what I'm, whatever I've always done. [00:19:15] Like procrastination or, boredom is a form of tension. And so oftentimes if we're bored, we're like what can I [00:19:20] do? Oh, let's go and scroll on my Instagram," or, "No, let's go and eat something," so to your [00:19:25] point I think we think, these big, you know, like, like, I'm gonna be aware of the [00:19:30] tension, and I'm gonna hold the tension. I'm gonna breathe through it. I'm gonna move. 'Cause we think it's gonna be [00:19:35] really uncomfortable. But oftentimes it's just like a, the feeling of [00:19:40] procrastination or perfectionism.
These are all states of being [00:19:45] that we have created or designed to move us out of [00:19:50] tension. So perfectionism I need it to be perfect so I'll spend three hours writing a post, [00:19:55] because it feels, it doesn't feel comfortable to post it as it is. So I'll keep working. So if I can sit [00:20:00] here and go, I recognize here I'm feeling a discomfort.
I'm in [00:20:05] tension. My comfort zone is to keep working on this. But what if I [00:20:10] just post it and see what happens? And now I'm starting to see I can recognize this [00:20:15] conditioned behavior, i'm gonna post it as it is. And we start posting it, and we [00:20:20] tell ourselves that we're safe. And huh, the worst case scenario didn't happen.
Someone didn't [00:20:25] think I was a total failure because it had a, a spelling mistake in it. We start to see that actually there's [00:20:30] different ways of being and different ways of moving. And when we move differently when we get different results. [00:20:35] And all of that is learning that it's okay to sit in [00:20:40] tension.
It's okay to feel uncomfortable while I'm asking someone for what I [00:20:45] want. It's okay to receive a compliment and say, "Thank you [00:20:50] so much. I really appreciate that," rather than, "Oh, this old thing. I feel terrible," because the [00:20:55] compliment feels uncomfortable, so I'll bat it back really quickly so I don't have to sit with the tension, [00:21:00] right?
Charis: Yeah.
Claire: These are just small ways that we deal with, that we try to offload [00:21:05] our tension. But in doing that, as we were talking before we got on the call, we're outsourcing our [00:21:10] power.
We're outsourcing our inner authority to just sit [00:21:15] with accepting someone's compliment. I did it on the tube today actually, and I was going [00:21:20] somewhere and there's this woman, she's very striking, and she was doing her makeup on the tube, [00:21:25] and I always think that's amazing.
So courageous. I'd be sticking my eye out, you know? But you know, we're [00:21:30] sitting there and I... she's got this long, beautiful auburn hair, and I love auburn hair, and I said to her, "You are s-," like I [00:21:35] whispered, I didn't say it loud, like it was a packed tube. I said, "I just have to say, you are so [00:21:40] beautiful."
And she goes, "You do not mean that." And she has an American accent. "You do not mean that." And I went, [00:21:45] "No, I do." She goes, "Oh my gosh, you just made my day. Thank you so much." But her first reaction was to [00:21:50] bat it back. I can't accept that. Oh, no." And as women, we do that so [00:21:55] often. Once you start becoming aware of it, you see where we do it all the time.
We want [00:22:00] support, but someone goes, "Can I help you there?" "Oh, no, thanks. I'm okay."
Someone offers you a seat. No, I'm fine." Rather [00:22:05] than, " Thank you so much. I really appreciate that kind gesture."
Charis: Yeah. It's so-
Claire: And these are all [00:22:10] ways that we, we offload tension 'cause we feel uncomfortable.
Charis: Yeah. At least for me and some [00:22:15] other people that I've known, I think a lot of this, sometimes when you're first [00:22:20] hearing about this and maybe you don't realize where this is coming up for you, [00:22:25] you might start noticing it in other people. So people you're- ... close to. You're [00:22:30] like, "Oh, wow, they are just pushing back on that compliment," or-
They are [00:22:35] struggling with that procrastination or whatever it is. Do you see that- ... [00:22:40] also?
Claire: Yeah, I think it's a lot easier to see in other people. Oh. But I guess we have to be [00:22:45] aware of it first. And once we're aware of it, we can often see it in other people, but we can't necessarily see it in [00:22:50] ourselves 'cause we justify our behavior, right?
Yeah. "Oh, I didn't..." Whatever excuse we, we mean, and it, [00:22:55] it makes sense for us to do that in the moment. We don't recognize- ... that there's been tension in our body and we've [00:23:00] tried to offload it. It just makes sense to us. So yeah.
Charis: So it's just such [00:23:05] another great reminder of the intimate connection of our mind and brain and our [00:23:10] body, right?
That's what this book is all about is those connections, and that we [00:23:15] can't... It's okay to look at them in separate ways in specific [00:23:20] different things that you're looking at. But overall, if you're zooming out it really does [00:23:25] help to see the interconnectedness of
Claire: it. Yeah, for sure. And I always think our, our [00:23:30] feelings are data.
They're signals that there's something for us to look at. Whether we get [00:23:35] frustrated or angry or embarrassed, like, all of those feeling [00:23:40] states are data. But back to that inside out connection, we think that person out [00:23:45] there is what... They were rude to me, and that's why I'm feeling angry.
But we wanna look at [00:23:50] where did that anger arise from? What am I making that person's comment [00:23:55] mean about me? It's often the interpretation rather than actually what's happening. It's what's going on in our [00:24:00] mind about what they're saying or what's happening in the moment. And so you really...[00:24:05]
And the, the, the feeling states, rather than reacting to them, [00:24:10] it's really helpful to journal and go what was actually going on for me in that moment? What was [00:24:15] I making that person mean, or what was I making that situation mean? What feeling [00:24:20] came up for me? Like, where have I felt that before? Was it something that happened to me when I was younger that's [00:24:25] just replaying over and over, and that's just an automated reaction now?"
Really get [00:24:30] curious about our feeling states because we're not taught that, right? We're just taught to react.
Charis: [00:24:35] Exactly. So how you see this type of way that we are [00:24:40] living, how do you see it holding people back?
Claire: I feel like we're puppets to our [00:24:45] emotions, so the world is completely reactive now.
We're completely out of [00:24:50] control. Like most of the time we're in blame or shame reactions, so [00:24:55] we don't wanna take responsibility, so we'll blame it on other people. And again, like [00:25:00] that's stopping us from living a more joyful, a more fully alive, a more grateful [00:25:05] more, a more present life, 'cause we're consistently and constantly [00:25:10] in reaction mode rather than taking responsibility for what's going on in our own energy [00:25:15] and our own, mind-body system.
And so it creates it ... [00:25:20] In terms of what it does for us it numbs us. Like it numbs us for the [00:25:25] joy, the aliveness that is available to us. We're here to enjoy life, which means to be in [00:25:30] joy, and how much of us are actually waking up in the morning and go, "Oh my gosh, another day. How [00:25:35] incredible. I can't wait"?
It's very rare. It's why most people are like, "Oh, or hanging out for Friday or the [00:25:40] weekend, and then Sunday comes and, "Oh my God, I've got Monday tomorrow." And there's no judgment around that, but I think it really is [00:25:45] because we're not taught to self-inquire about who am I?
What's going [00:25:50] on with me? Why do I respond like that? Where am I outsourcing my own joy [00:25:55] because I'm blaming it on out there, or society, or the government, or my job, or my boss, or my [00:26:00] partner? Where am I not taking responsibility for my own joy and aliveness? And that's [00:26:05] what the inner inquiry really helps us do.
Get a completely different perspective on [00:26:10] ourselves, on our relationships, on our life, and on what it [00:26:15] means to live in this incredible world.
Charis: It's pretty amazing to... you [00:26:20] mentioned in, I think in the book about focus, when we f- what we focus [00:26:25] on is what becomes. Yeah. So this reminds me of that because if, [00:26:30] let's say you're a parent and you have a spouse and a couple of kids, and you [00:26:35] decide that you're going to work on this for yourself, it's really interesting how it kind of [00:26:40] exudes out to your family even without telling them.
Claire: For sure. That's a lot of the [00:26:45] time, when women come to me for business, and I mainly work with women in business, [00:26:50] and the, they will come back to me and they go, "Oh my gosh, my marriage just my the communication in [00:26:55] my marriage has changed," or, "The relationship has got...
We've got closer." Because they're [00:27:00] starting the inner inquiry. They're starting to take responsibility for their own actions, their own feeling [00:27:05] states, and so they're not reacting like they normally would. And [00:27:10] sometimes the partners might get triggered because, we get in, as partners we get into this response.
This is how [00:27:15] you re- this is how you react, and this is how I react to that. And it's like a... when one person doesn't [00:27:20] react, it's like hold on a minute," so there's a lot, a lot can come up- ... when we start doing the [00:27:25] inner inquiry. But the, the ripple effect is so often when we start taking [00:27:30] care of ourselves, that energy, ripples out to our loved ones our work, our [00:27:35] community and that's what's so beautiful about this work
Charis: Right. It's not like a [00:27:40] checklist or like a s- a protocol or anything like that. Yeah. It's just li- literally the [00:27:45] focus state of working on your, yourself, how- however you [00:27:50] would phrase it. Not that we're working on the negative parts of ourself, 'cause it's not that.
It's just [00:27:55] working on the parts of ourself that are holding us back so that we can be [00:28:00] what we want.
Claire: Yeah. And those parts of ourselves are actually self-protection. A lot of [00:28:05] this comes from what happened between the ages of two and seven. And those reactions or back then were very [00:28:10] appropriate as a three-year-old whose brain hadn't formed, who didn't e- understand how the [00:28:15] world works.
And that might've been very appropriate and safe at the time as a protection [00:28:20] mechanism. But as you move through the world and you become an adult, it's not appropriate to [00:28:25] react like that anymore. And we're never really given that, that rite of [00:28:30] passage, I for m- my parents "While you're living under my roof," when I was, a teenager, " you [00:28:35] will, you live by my rules."
And sure, that makes sense, but where's that [00:28:40] rite of passage where we leave the home, you become an adult, and you're still... I was still living [00:28:45] by their rules,
until I started doing this work. And I think it's Ram Dass might've [00:28:50] said "If you think you've become enlightened, go and speak, spend a week with your parents."
' Cause those [00:28:55] triggers will come up.
Charis: Oh, that's so fun. Yeah. I love it.
Claire: Yes, that's fun. Love it. But yeah.
Charis: [00:29:00] You have a year-long program. Is that right?
Claire: I do, yeah. So my [00:29:05] membership is, it's about... I do a lot of one-to-one coaching, but also group programs. [00:29:10] And in the group, I, help people see this for themselves, help them uncover their [00:29:15] own patterns and relationships with themselves and how they react and their conditioned [00:29:20] responses and then, so we can do that in the group.
But oftentimes, you can learn these things, and then you go [00:29:25] away and you fall back into your conditioned patterns, right? Life's, and off you go. Very- everything's busy. So I have a [00:29:30] membership that helps people integrate that over a year. And it's called The Frequency because it's all about our [00:29:35] energy is our most potent currency, and how are we using that energy [00:29:40] to create a joyfully, wildly alive life that, can impact others ourselves first, but then [00:29:45] i- impact others around the world.
So that's called The Frequency, yeah.
Charis: That's awesome. [00:29:50] And the, a reason I brought it up, I mean, partially we do wanna let people know like [00:29:55] what kind of work you do and, obviously in the show notes we'll have your website [00:30:00] and your Instagram whatever other links you would like to put in there.
But I [00:30:05] hear a lot from people that a year is too much of a commitment for a [00:30:10] program. And I, in my mind, push back on this a lot because I [00:30:15] often think n- doesn't matter what you're focusing on, if it's nutrition, [00:30:20] exercise, your own self, like this kind of, or business or whatever it is, [00:30:25] none of this happened overnight.
And it's not gonna get changed overnight. And I think [00:30:30] we as practitioners or women who are collaborating with other women [00:30:35] need to reinforce this, that the lo- little bit longer period of [00:30:40] time enables you to have so much more growth. Is that what in your program?
Claire: [00:30:45] Totally. To, to your, like what we're talking about, we've created conditioned behaviors that [00:30:50] are largely unconscious to us since we were children, and we have responded to those again and [00:30:55] again and again and again.
They are now just au- autopilot, so we're not even aware of it. [00:31:00] So when you start doing inner inquiry or personal development work, you can uncover some of this stuff, and it can [00:31:05] be a big insight "Wow, I can see what I do now." But the insight [00:31:10] doesn't mean that the, everything changes.
The, the work starts from the insight. It's now, [00:31:15] okay, now when that discomfort comes up, I have to remember to respond [00:31:20] differently.
And so if we're not ge- being in groups where we can [00:31:25] constantly and keep in the inner inquiry, where we're being supported to have these [00:31:30] conversations where the...
I like, gosh, this came up the other night. I totally went mad at my husband or my [00:31:35] partner, like I totally lost it with them. And so we can come back and we go, "Okay let's walk through the stre- [00:31:40] steps. What happened?" So if we're not constantly in that inquiry, then it's very rare, as [00:31:45] human behaviors and conditioned beings, that we can actually affect sustainable [00:31:50] change.
And I'm really about there's not only that. So there's... I think those longer term spaces are about how [00:31:55] do we... learning to live in that- ... that new way of being. We're rewiring our, [00:32:00] neural pathways. We're re- training our nervous system to [00:32:05] respond differently.
So this is not just- ... that sort of stuff. But there's other ways [00:32:10] that I r- what I love about this work, and that's one of the things I've, I feel so [00:32:15] grateful about this book collaboration is being in the conversation with these incredible women [00:32:20] also doing this work. But as women, when...
in the ancient days, we came together as [00:32:25] women and supported each other. And w- women were, like, running the, running the [00:32:30] communities. They're running the tribes, and they would come together in sacred union and talk about, [00:32:35] how they were gonna respond. And I think we have to get back to that sort of sisterhood, 'cause as, [00:32:40] as, as women, that's how we regulate, in communion, in partnership, in [00:32:45] friendship.
Our nervous systems regulate by being together, and I think that's why those, those [00:32:50] communities can be so helpful and nourishing as well in supporting each other [00:32:55] to, become the women our vision- visions require. And that's what I'm really [00:33:00] passionate about.
Charis: I love it. I think especially in this day and age with technology, [00:33:05] it's brought us together.
I never would otherwise ever talk, speak with you probably. I
Claire: know.
Charis: [00:33:10] So
Claire: grateful. So
Charis: I'm grateful for that for sure. But it's also, I think a lot [00:33:15] of people really are yearning that human connection and that community [00:33:20] that- Yeah ... we don't always have when we're separated from each other.
Claire: Yeah, and that's the polarity [00:33:25] that we exist within, right?
Where there's dark, there's light. Where there's good, there's bad. Tech- technology's incredible. And [00:33:30] also, if we're not a- aware of the harmful side of it, it can keep us completely [00:33:35] isolated, it can keep us going down rabbit holes where we think the way a- that we think is the right [00:33:40] way.
And it can keep us separate from humanity and community, which is what we're all [00:33:45] here for, right? To be in relationship with not only ourselves, but with nature, [00:33:50] with, the earth. So yeah it's really important.
Charis: I can't think of a better place to end [00:33:55] our conversation. I would love to keep talking to you, Claire.
Claire: It's been such a joy. I knew it [00:34:00] would be. Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. Yes. I feel very honored.
Charis: It was wonderful to have you here. The [00:34:05] link for the book will be in the show notes. It's also in my Instagram bio. You [00:34:10] can always DM me if you want more information on the book, or Claire I'm sure as well.
We are [00:34:15] just so happy to promote it and feel- ... just this wonderful energy with all these [00:34:20] people putting our brains together. It's been fun.
Claire: Yes. And our hearts.
Charis: Yes. [00:34:25] Exactly. I hope
Claire: you- Thank you so much for having me.
Charis: Yeah. Have a great day.
Claire: Thank [00:34:30] you.
The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational [00:34:35] purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. I am not a medical [00:34:40] doctor and this content is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or [00:34:45] prevent any disease. Please consult with a qualified healthcare professional before making [00:34:50] any decisions related to your health, especially if you have a medical condition or are taking [00:34:55] medications
