Charis & Leah EDITED Video
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[00:00:00] You might be doing all the things, eating well, taking your supplements, trying to manage your stress, and still feel puffy, foggy, heavy, or stuck. And if that sounds familiar, what if the missing piece isn't another protocol, but a system in your body that you have barely heard of? I see this so often with women I work with, especially those dealing with chronic fatigue, digestive issues, autoimmune conditions, or just that nagging sense that their body isn't moving the way it should.
They've tried a lot, but this one piece keeps getting overlooked. Here's the reframe. Your body is designed to heal itself, but it needs to be able to move what it needs to move, and that's where your lymphatic system comes in. It's not just about swelling after cancer treatment. It's about fluid, flow, fascia, your nervous system, and how all of that connects to the way that you feel every single day.
Today I'm joined by my friend Leah Lavatan, [00:01:00] lymphatic therapist, educator, and founder of the Lymph Love Club. Leah helps women understand the powerful connection between the lymphatic system, fascia, the nervous system, and chronic inflammation.
In this conversation, we talk about what the lymphatic system actually does, how to tell if yours might be sluggish, the difference between lymphedema and lipedema, and a simple morning practice called the Big Six that you can start doing tomorrow for free in your pajamas. What I love about this conversation is how calm and grounded Leah makes all of this feel.
This isn't fear-based wellness. It's practical, science informed, and deeply hopeful. Let's get into it.
Welcome back to the Harness Your Health podcast.
I have a really fun and interesting guest with me today, Leah Levitan. Welcome, Leah. Hi. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So I'm gonna read her bio so that you get the gist of what Leah does, and then we will dive [00:02:00] into all of the juicy content that we're gonna talk about. Literally juicy. Literally juicy.
I know you use that word a lot. I love it. So as a lymphatic therapist, educator, and founder of the Lymph Love Club, Leah helps women better understand the connection between the lymphatic system, fascia, nervous system, and chronic inflammation. Through her hands-on clinical work and online education, she empowers people with practical science-informed tools for supporting pain, fatigue, swelling, stress, and other chronic health concerns.
Leah brings a compassionate, down-to-earth approach to complex wellness topics, making her a thoughtful and engaging guest for conversations around women's health, chronic illness, and holistic healing. So amazing. Beautiful. Thanks. Love it. So- Thank you. Lovely introduction. Aw, thank you for being here. I really appreciate you taking the time.
And [00:03:00] I, work with my clients... Most of my clients have some sort of digestive complaint. And so as you know very well, digestion and the nervous system, and digestion and lymphatics are very intertwined, and we're gonna talk about that a little bit. But I just wanna say right off the bat, I appreciate so much the type of practitioner you are.
You believe very much in the interconnectedness of the body, and really the mind and the spirit, and all of that. My exposure to you has just felt very calming. And to me, like, when you're in that state, you just feel like you can take in all that you're teaching us. So I just love that very much.
Oh, I'm so glad that the work resonates and that just the way that I look at the body and a- as a part of nature, that it feels familiar and it feels true. ' Cause I think we are a part of nature, and so important to kinda bring in the Eastern and the Western philosophies when it comes to healing.
We really need both. Absolutely. I don't know if you know this, but one of my [00:04:00] goals with this podcast, 'cause most people know I am an oncology nurse, I have been for a very long time, and I really want people to see that they need their healthcare providers, right? You need your doctors. You- there's definitely a time and a place for that, but that you have so much control over your health, and this is such an important topic today to weave that in, and that we don't have to be, like, us versus them, it's just this continuum of health and wellness, and you as the person sit right in the center of that, and you have a lot of control and a lot of intervention that you can do on your own that supports your wellness in every way, yeah. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. Self-care is - healthcare. Yeah, absolutely.
Can you just start with you are a massage therapist and a lymphatic therapist. I think you started as a massage therapist, is that correct? I did, yeah. Massage. So how did you get into lymphatics with this as your expertise? That's really interesting because I [00:05:00] started out in sports medicine, like injury rehab, like getting athletes back out there, and it was really intense.
Very targeted, specific work. And, there were some people that I was working with that maybe weren't athletes, but they were at the sports medicine chiropractic place that I worked at, that just weren't really responding to the treatments that we were doing on professional athletes.
So I was just like What is it between some of these folks that are just not really seeing the results? And that's where the chronic inflammation piece came in, where I'm like, oh, I can't use the same techniques on every single body that comes in. So I just... as like a new therapist I learned pretty quickly that that we need different strokes for different folks.
So I started to expand out there into more nervous system based stuff and that led me to a company called RockTape. They make kinesiology tape and it bridged that like professional athlete [00:06:00] and other really cool outside-the-box instructors that worked for that company. And Dr.
Perry Nickelston was one of them. If anyone's familiar with Dr. Perry's work or is not familiar with Dr. Perry's work he is Stop Chasing Pain, and he's like the lymph guy. He's been doing this for 20 , 30 years and, he was able to heal his bo- his body, his like thyroid condition.
And I just remember finding this guy through RockTape and being like, what is this lymph stuff that people are talking about? And that just led me down that path, and his work really inspired me to go back to school and become a lymphatic therapist. So I did that in 2019, right before the bottom dropped out.
It's also the year that I started my business, was December of 2019. So it was only a few months that I was in where I was out on my own. I was like, "I'm not doing athletic stuff anymore. I'm gonna find my flow, find my practice, figure [00:07:00] out how I wanna help people and show up for them," and that really changed the trajectory of my career.
So it just changed the client population that I was working with. I had primarily been working with men, and then all of a sudden I was working with women. And then the lymphatic, you put the lymphatic neon light on, and it starts to bring in cases that I'd never seen. For the most part I'd worked with people that were pretty well, feeling good in their body, and just wanted...
performance. and so then finding people that were having trouble getting out of bed, having trouble just concentrating and living their life and having a good quality of life because of the, pain and fatigue and issues that they were having in their body, and it just turned out that the lymphatic piece was the missing piece for so many of them, and that really opened my eyes.
So- Yeah. I love to hear the organic story of how it happened, right? And it just seems like it's hard for me to imagine you taking care of mostly men in a athletic situation, but I'm sure you were wonderful there, [00:08:00] too. It's just so interesting when you say that was the missing piece, because in oncology and in cancer treatment, I haven't worked as a nurse for...
It's been s- eight, six, I don't know, six or seven years now at this point, so I don't know. Maybe things have changed, but for the most part, I will tell you that we never... Lymph was never a word that was even brought into the discussion until you talk about lymphedema. So maybe we can just go on into that a little bit.
Why don't you just explain what we're talking about when we're talking about lymph, and then maybe some of those outlier things that people are talking about? 'Cause there's a lot of discussion about this on the internet right now. Lipedema, lymphedema, right? Yeah. It's so interesting because the topic is trending, and the algorithm is starting to take root and take notice of what we're consuming on social media, and so we start to see more and more of that content coming in.
And so then [00:09:00] when people are like, "Oh, man, my lymphatic system is just wrecked. I'm broken. I have a clog. I'm stagnant. I'm toxic-" And then their mind goes to the worst place, and I've had a lot of people that have had fully functioning lymphatic systems where I'm like, "I don't think that you have a lymphatic disease."
So the lymphatic system is primarily responsible for balancing, the fluid levels in the body, and it's also a huge part of our immune system. So we have our cardiovascular system, which is pumping blood to and from the cells in our body to nourish them, and then that excess fluid that's leaking out of the vascular structures to nourish the tissue, the lymphatic system is responsible for picking all of that excess fluid up, and it brings it back into the cardiovascular system.
So when we're talking about oncology specifically, then we're talking about secondary lymphedema. When this system is disrupted by [00:10:00] surgery and radiation, chemotherapy lymph node removal, a general surgery will cut lymphatic vessels, but lymphatic vessels grow back. Lymph, lymph nodes, the little tiny filtration stations that are gathered around our major joints, there's no pump for the lymphatic system, so it's like the design of the lymphatic system is to really be pumped by us.
We are the pump by our movement. And so when there is a disruption and there's lymph nodes removed from the body, this can cause fluid accumulation to start really bogging down in the quadrant of the body where the lymph nodes were removed. So if you were to divide your body into five sections, like a upper and lower, left and right halves, it can be whether it's gynecological, that can be like a lower body lymphedema, or whether it's breast cancer-related and lymph nodes were removed from the armpit, then that quadrant, whether it's the arm or the leg, can be affected.
And this isn't like a automatic thing that happens with every case, [00:11:00] but it's just a possibility after surgery. And there's so many things that we can do to reduce that risk of lymphedema, but, feeling heaviness and fullness and feeling like your lymphatic system is stuck or slow, that might be more of like a chronic inflammation thing.
But lymphedema is very specific in the sense that it's a protein-rich fluid that starts to accumulate, which is even more inflammatory, and so the body will start to lie down fibrosis, like scar tissue. So the fascia will start to change and adapt to that slow-moving fluid on the surface of the skin.
And so it's just something to think about. It's totally different than people thinking they have some lymphatic issues versus like a pathological thing that's really happening versus a response from the body. So it's a response from the body when it's pathological, but it...
having lymphatic issues does not necessarily mean that it's pathological. So it's just helpful to understand what lymphedema [00:12:00] is. And sometimes it's, it can be genetic and people are born with it, and that's primary lymphedema. So that's separate from oncology and but it's still the same disease.
It just might affect more than one quadrant of the body. It might be because there's malfunction of the lymphatic vessels or a malformation, or there's just missing parts of the lymphatic system. And so that can usually cause more of a, like a bilateral swelling. So you might see it on the left and right versus secondary, which is m- mostly gonna be on one side of the body where the lymph nodes were removed.
And lipedema's kind of similar in the sense, but it's not a lymphatic disease. It's actually a connective tissue disease. So this is really affecting our fat and our fascia, and that in turn will mess with the lymphatic fluid. So there's swelling there in the lymph.
The lymph is always coming up in that topic, but lipedema [00:13:00] is where the fat in the body, certain parts of the body, it can be in the arms or the legs. It can also be in the trunk and hips sometimes, and this fat is a little bit different. So it's mostly genetic, and so it's primarily affecting women, and it's usually happening during a spike of hormonal disruption.
So whether it's puberty, pregnancy or perimenopause, the three Ps- ... that spike in hormones can really trigger it or progress it. So a lot of times people are getting cellulite and lipedema mixed up because it's accumulation of the fat. So these fat cells are larger, they're dividing faster, and then they're also inflamed.
They call it painful fat disorder, and I don't know that I love that word but or that phrasing. But it's true because that's the felt experience that people are having in their body. So if we're comparing lymphedema and lipedema, [00:14:00] lymphedema is lymphatic, lipedema is connective tissue, so fat and connective tissue.
While that accumulation of that painful fat can slow the fluid flow down, and it can potentially if the lipedema progresses far enough, it can turn into lipo-lymphedema, and it can be both. I have worked with clients that have had both. It can get a little bit heady in the sense of what could go wrong with the lymphatic system?
We focus on also what can go right, too, and how we can support the body regardless of what we have going on, because there's always room for improvement when working with the system. Sure. And that's probably not the case for most people that they have lipedema or lymphedema.
I'm so glad that you explained that, though, because I think people oftentimes will see some of this online and jump to those conclusions because maybe they are feeling some of those things you mentioned before heavy, stuck. What would be some [00:15:00] indications that you are struggling with poor lymphatic flow?
So not necessarily lipedema or lymphedema, but just in general that your lymph isn't moving as it should. Yeah, that's a great question. If you're not moving your body regularly throughout the day, say you're seated on a computer like myself a few days a week, or when I'm working with clients I'm often sitting or standing while I'm working on them, it sure isn't cardio.
You know what I mean? And so if we're not moving our body enough, odds are we're probably dealing with some lymphatic stuff. And it's not necessarily that, that there might be something just wrong out the gate, but it's cumulative, right? It's day after day, month after month, year after year, over our lifetime, that things can really start to accumulate if we're not keeping that fluid that's bathing and cleansing our cells moving.
Every physiological function that happens in our body [00:16:00] is dependent upon movement, and there's a big difference between movement and exercise. So when I say movement, I don't mean going to the gym, putting an outfit on, and picking up heavy stuff and putting it back down. When I say movement, I mean breathing, sneezing, pooping, menstruating, laughing hugging, walking.
It's everything else. Exercise is a tiny little bubble. But when things are starting to slow down... So that's just the precursor. If you're not moving, someday maybe there's gonna be some lymph stuff. If you've already got the lymph stuff, a lot of times people will feel a little bit foggy in the brain, which is such a vague symptom, right?
But just that mental clarity, that mental sharpness, that focus, a lot of times people are just feeling a little bit of brain fog, which in my mind is brain clog. We have a lymphatic system in our brain the glymphatic system that's really meant to sweep the amyloid [00:17:00] plaque off of the surface of the brain when we're in deep non-REM sleep.
If you're feeling a lot of fluid accumulation in the face, you wake up puffy every morning, you've got that brain foggy type of veil just hanging over your consciousness every day, that's a good indication that there might be something going swollen lymph nodes all over your body.
I see people that have chronic, that chronic inflammation where the whole lymphatic system is just... Because it's a big part of our immune system, when the lymph nodes swell and they get a little bit tender that's a response. That's a message from the body that it's really trying to clear something that's not able to leave So swelling in the lymph nodes, gastrointestinal issues cardiovascular issues.
So the lymphatic system and the cardiovascular system make up the circulatory system. So anything that's going on with your cardiovascular system, whether it's spider veins, varicose veins deep vein thrombosis blood clots cholesterol, anything [00:18:00] like that there's gonna be a lymph thing attached to that because that fluid, that wax on, wax off of feeding and nourishing our cells, the lymphatic system's gonna have to pick up the slack.
And, a third of the lymph nodes in the body are located in the abdomen surrounding the gastrointestinal tract. There's also lymphoid tissue, not lymph nodes per se, but little squishy beds of immune activity that are monitoring everything that we eat as it passes through.
So this kind of goes back to movement. It's like our organs are designed to move. They're all anchored to the abdominal cavity by way of visceral fascia. So it's like a curtain, of attachments. Nothing is free-floating around in the abdomen So we think about chronic stress, not moving enough, and the body feeling stressed.
Our breathing becomes more shallow. We're not moving our pelvis to massage our organs. And then, that, the primary muscle of breathing, the diaphragm, it raises and lowers and helps to pump that fluid and change the pressure and massage the [00:19:00] organs. And so that can really have an effect on the digestive tract.
It's just part of that lymphatic and movement piece. Puffiness in the ankles and the feet, heaviness, just feeling man, my rings don't fit today. Yeah. That's like a little nod from the fluid layer, but those are- Those- ... some potential things Those are all good. I think... I love how you broke that down because I think that it's confusing sometimes, right?
Because there's so much cross symptoms with condition or whatever, and trying to fit things in a box. And so I'm always trying to get people to get out of the box and to just think about the supportive underlying things that can support you and then watch how that changes how you feel.
So I love that you brought up movement because I have questions that I ask people, and it's about exercise, 'cause obviously exercise is important for the different types of exercise that there are, cardiovascular, muscular flexibility, [00:20:00] but more than that is the constant moving. People will say to me I go for a half-an-hour walk every day," or, "I go to the gym every day," like you described.
But I ask them what do you do the rest of the day?" 'Cause you're awake for 16 hours the rest of the day. What are you doing, right? And so it's changing that mindset, I think, to be thinking about oh, when I get up from sitting at my desk for three hours, I don't feel very good, right?
Yeah. I'm stiff and sore, and that could be because I'm, like, slumped down. As soon as you said diaphragm, I took a deep breath. That's just so common, right? We're sitting at our computers, at our desk doing whatever we're doing, and you settle into these patterns of this poor posture, poor, lack of movement.
And so- I really encourage people to have just what is your little routine? Is it five squats? Is it five things where you just put your arms above your head? What is it? Or shaking. There's all kinds [00:21:00] of different things you can do in every time you get up from your desk.
Yeah. Yeah, we have to break it down to a more manageable size, I think, because so many people are dealing with burnout and overwhelm, and it's really easy to say "Oh, we all have the same amount of hours in the day." So easy to say that, and you tell that to a new mom or somebody who's grieving the loss of a loved one it can be hard to find motivation, and it's not really about motivation. If it was only about discipline, then we would all have figured it out. So it's really most about what we value. We have to attach a value to, like why does this matter? Like, why is it worth being aware and conscious of what I'm doing with my body, and how I'm positioning it, and how often I'm moving it?
So movement snacks are really great because they just allow us to have that [00:22:00] bite-sized nutrient of movement that gets the lymph flowing. So yeah, like you were just saying with the bouncing, like lifting your arms above your head. We have to think about the things that aren't moving well in our body or that get a lot of movement, 'cause we tend to do the same thing.
You mentioned patterns. It's a really good word because we just get into the groove, right? We wear down that same path, and it feels comfortable, and it feels safe. But what we realize on the other side of that coin is that- We need some sort of something different because it's gonna start wearing down certain parts of our body that we're moving the most or not moving the most.
It's definitely like a use it or lose it situation. So For sure. I know you know, but I have mentioned this I think a couple times on the podcast about having this kind of chronic hip pain that I had started a little over a year ago. And, I went through physical therapy, I went to the orthopedic [00:23:00] surgeon, who was wonderful, but he's like, "You have some arthritis," and whatever. So I was just not convinced that was gonna be my destiny of like, I'm gonna have to have a surgery because I have arthritis, it just felt like it came on suddenly, which I know isn't a sudden cause, usually. There was no cause from it, really.
But it did come on, the symptom of the pain came on suddenly. But I knew that with most things, these things are built over years, decades, right? And so a lot of physiology is like that. But, so I figured it was probably the same. And then I really got exposed to lymph and fascia work and all these things, and started learning more about this.
And I realized that for me, I was sitting too much. I wasn't moving around very much. And I really started to think about it from that lens of like, how could I affect this pain that I'm having- on a day in, day out basis. [00:24:00] Like, how could I fix it, if you will if I'm feeling it, and I realize a lot of it was , linked to dehydration, especially in the morning. But also just with too much stagnant, like not enough movement. And so that just completely changed the trajectory of how I functioned throughout my day, and now my pain is essentially gone. I- Yay. I know. And it, it- Motion is the lotion.
It's not always, it's not every case is gonna be like that, but man, most of them are. Yeah. Movement is often the answer, and it doesn't always have to be complicated or really challenging. It can just be, like, beginning where we are and figuring out where we are, and then just slowly building from there.
Sure. Because I think in the beginning it was overwhelming 'cause I was having a lot of pain, and so it's like I was willing to do whatever, but I also, like, how am I gonna add this in, the mentality of that was hard for me. And that's exactly what I [00:25:00] did, is just little things, and I just literally started with little teeny things.
Doing my big six, which I wanna talk about in the morning. And I did it laying down, so I would love to hear your take on that. We should talk about what that is. And then that's how I started anyway. And then, I just built on it throughout the day and I realized that I felt better.
So when you feel better, it's so much easier to keep going. It's so much easier to have that motivation, right? And you have the conf- The inertia Yeah. And you have the confidence that what you're doing is working, so keep going. It's your feedback that you're getting. Yeah. So will you talk about that, the big six?
Because you've defined the lymphatic system, so we know it's tissues lymph nodes, these little channels that run really underneath our skin, right? And so that's why movement helps. You also have some really deep structures of the lymphatic system in your trunk. And so we know [00:26:00] that's there.
But will you just talk about the big six? 'Cause anybody who knows what lymph is or lymphatic system has probably heard of this before. Oh you'd be surprised. My goodness. Yeah. I tell my clients about it all the time, and so this is something that Dr. Perry came up with to make- The very complex concept of fluid dynamics- easy to understand so that people could move the lymphatic fluid in their body and really get things circulating in a way that was, like, quick and easy and repeatable, right? Repeatable and sustainable. So our lymphatic system is really governed by pressure. There's no pump, and so because we are designed to move the fluid when we move, when we're not moving, the pressure goes up in the vasculature.
When we move, it goes down, and it invites the fluid back in. And so the concept of Dr. Perry's Big Six, it's so similar to the manual [00:27:00] lymphatic drainage that I have formal training in, except that it's just not stuffy, and it doesn't take forever, and it's... and it doesn't have to be complicated. But it does have to be done in a certain way, and that's because of the fluid dynamics and this concept of it being a pressure system and changing the pressure.
So right behind the collarbones there are a couple veins that go right back into the heart, the subclavian veins under the clavicles. And so this area is like an... it's like a... where all the fluid goes back into circulation, but it's also the lowest point of pressure in the body. And so fluid, whether it's blood, lymph, interstitial, it's all moving as it does in nature, which is with gravity and to the lowest point of pressure.
And so when we're moving, we're guiding this fluid back into circulation. So point one of the Big Six is gonna be, like, rubbing above and below the collarbones to change the pressure Point number two is like just on either [00:28:00] sides of the neck about an inch below the ear. You just take two fingers and you do some little circular rubbing, and that is right where the vagus nerve exits the spine.
And also the largest lymph node in the neck sits right on top of it, and the largest lymph node in the neck is receiving fluid from the tongue and the tonsils. So our airway is a very vulnerable part of our body. It's where germs and viruses and just pathogens can get in to the body. And so a third of the lymph nodes are in the head and neck.
And so it's like you're stimulating the vagus nerve, which kind of triggers relaxation. It's part of that that rest and digest parasympathetic response. When we're stimulating that, we're really stimulating the body to come down into a better place to receive this work because it dilates the fluid vessels so they expand and they widen, which increases flow through them.
And so these, fluid pipes widen and are able to receive fluid. So then you would move down to [00:29:00] points three, which is the axillary clusters. So we've got about 30 to 50 lymph nodes on either side, and they're draining the arm and the shoulder and the chest and the breast. And w- then we've got some...
that third of the lymph nodes in the abdomen, so point number five is working the abdomen and just working in a circular motion. The hip creases, you're moving down to the bottom quadrants now, about 18 to 20 lymph nodes in the hip creases, and those are draining fluid from the legs. And then point number f- six is a couple lymph nodes behind the knee.
So you're rubbing them in this order, in this very particular order of one, two, three, four, five, six, and then at the end, you bounce and you shake and you lymph it out, as Dr. Perry says. And that is really intended to circulate the fluids. What I love about Dr. Perry is that he's always citing his sources.
He's like, "I have no original ideas." Like, i've learned from somebody else. I stand on the shoulders of giants. And if we just- are [00:30:00] able to share where we get our inspiration from is so helpful. So he, is really the one that kind of introduced me to traditional Chinese medicine in that sense of qigong.
The shaking was something he, that he had brought up and it just felt really good, and the more that I did it, the more benefits I noticed. And then my rebounder and my vibration plate are out of self-care rotation. I don't need them anymore. But yeah, doing the big six first thing in the morning is the best time.
The lymphatic fluid is really a little bit thicker and stickier when we wake up. We haven't had any fluids, and we haven't moved our body. So doing the big six after you have a glass of water first thing in the morning is probably the easiest, most accessible way to take care of your lymphatic system each and every day, and it's free, that's so awesome. That brings up another question, 'cause I've often thought this. Let's say you do that in the morning, and then you're getting ready for the day, you're moving around, and then you're going and you're sitting in your office or at your [00:31:00] computer work or whatever you're doing.
Should you do the big six again, or do you see it as once they're opened or cleared in the morning, that you don't need to do it again? I would say in this instance more is better, but you might want to... If this is new for you, I would slowly work up to doing it more often.
Okay. I, because I teach it and I do it myself, I feel like sometimes I'll do it three or four times a day. And it's not like- something that feels obsessive or like I, I have to do it or I won't feel good. It's really just a way of moving through life for me.
It's a lifestyle to be in conversation with my body and to be like, " what do I need right now? Oh, I've just sat at my computer for four hours. I think I need to circulate some fluids." Yeah. That makes total sense, right? Yeah. Love it. I don't really have a routine where I do it when I, with my work.
I'll do it sometimes if I feel [00:32:00] tight or heavy or something like that, but if I've been driving for a while, and this was my big thing with my hip, I could not literally sit for longer than like 20 minutes. And so I s- now if I'm driving for an hour or two, I will do my big six again regardless of when I've done it before.
But it's just such a great start to my morning. I just do it every single morning, and you're right. I have a rebounder too, and I like to use my rebounder sometimes, but you don't need the rebounder. When... I've heard you mention before what you love to do is go outside, and so that's a double whammy.
And what I always preach is "Get the light on your eyeballs." Stand in the grass. And so you're doing all of these things at one time that's supporting your body in this way that is only gonna set you up for better health and to have a good day from every way. Yeah. So this type of self-care, this, like- Going outside and putting your feet in the [00:33:00] grass and absorbing the biomagnetic energy that's coming out of the soil or the wood or the rock.
It's all coming out of nature, and we absorb it like a little squishy battery. And then looking at things that are farther away and tracking things with your eyes and getting morning light into your eyeballs to communicate to your brain like, "Hey, you're an animal." This type of self-care can feel strange, and then you start doing it.
And it looks really strange, too. There's something about just like, being in line at the grocery store and being like, "Don't worry about me. I'm just like... I'm fine. I'm rubbing my lymph. It's great. I have time to do it, and I'm doing it." But it all comes back to thinking of yourself as a part of nature, thinking of yourself as an animal that needs to be outside.
We are living in captivity, and that's just a part of living in [00:34:00] modernity. It's not like everybody needs to go sell their house and go buy a homestead and grow all their own food to be well. We just need to find that balance of okay My body needs these things. It's a very primal need.
How can I deliver that? And that is... It's hard to do with bubble baths and foot soaks and the self-care that's been sold to us, right? So it's like self-care has to get a little bit smarter, and I think- For sure ... it is, and that feels good. Yeah. When people start to do this on a consistent basis, they notice a difference right away.
And the other thing that pe- a lot of people notice is the connection with their digestion, because really in Chinese medicine, your large intestine is most active from 5:00 to 7:00 in the morning, and so that's really when you should be having a bowel movement. Having a bowel movement first thing in the morning is considered the gold star if you will.
And so a lot of people with sluggish digestion [00:35:00] don't have that or struggle at all to have a bowel movement in during the day. You will not believe how it impacts your digestive system if you start to do this. Oh, yeah. The Big Six is so helpful for that morning, the morning go. Yeah. I used to rely really heavily on my cup of coffee to help me poop.
And now I drink water before coffee. Go figure. Oh, look at you. Awesome. I love it. So you mentioned, or we mentioned in your bio that you work with a lot of people that have inflammation, chronic health conditions.
If you see someone that has, you know probably has chronic inflammation, or they're complaining about some of these things that you know are probably chronic inflammation is in play somewhere, right?
Yeah. Anyone really with autoimmune disease, chronic, any sort of health condition probably has some inflammation somewhere. Yeah. And like, how do you see the interplay with maybe it's just the lymphatic [00:36:00] routine? So starting a lymphatic routine, just like what we were talking about, the morning bookend of doing something like that.
How do you see that influence inflammation and influence people's chronic conditions? I would say more often than not, the thing that's causing the inflammation... Because healing is like mind, body, spirit, right? It's physical, it's emotional, it's spiritual.
There is a lot of disconnect from our physical bodies. There's a lot of weird messaging in our culture about what our body's supposed to look like what our life is supposed to look like. Our self-worth is so deeply tied to, like, how productive we are. And so a lot of my clients that are coming in with chronic inflammation are also just chronically stressed, and they need authentic rest.
They need authentic rest, and they're not able to allow themselves to have it. They just [00:37:00] can't not be busy people. And so a lot of the work that I'm doing, it has so little to do with the work that I'm actually doing on the table. Yes, I might help keep people between the lines. It's almost like the the- Like the kids' bumper protectors on the bowling alley, it's like I might be that for somebody for a little while, but the whole goal is for people to need me less and less, and so that means helping people figure out what's really here. What is it, i'm not a therapist. I'm a massage therapist, so sometimes I feel like I'm in that role of whoa, okay, I'm also like, somebody came in and was just feeling really emotional that day or really drained.
People just are, like, hustling to heal. They're hustling to heal, and they're doing all of these things, and they're not seeing the results, and so it's like there's a lot of like grasping, for what they think is supposed to happen. And I think a big part of lowering chronic inflammation is really looking at the body as a [00:38:00] whole and looking at that emotional and spiritual aspect of the physicality as well.
It's like when we move our emotions, and so a lot of times when we're not able to express and we're not able to release things, then we just end up carrying them around, and that ends up weighing more and more, and then people reach that breaking point, and so the basic lifestyle changes, the things that are so simple, like where we start, is a lot of times it's getting people to do less.
And that can be really hard, so- Yeah ... I don't know if that answers your question. No, it's... I love how you explain that, and it made me think about the nervous system, right? So like- Oh, God, I didn't, we didn't even talk about that. Yeah. Yeah, so like the nervous system for people a- what you're describing, a lot of these people are just on.
And I was like this too for a long time. I just almost felt- Me too ... like I couldn't relax. I couldn't... If I sat on the couch, then it was over the rest of the [00:39:00] day, 'cause I was using that to, the momentum to keep myself going. I love that you explained it that way because infla- everyone thinks, oh, inflammation is from leaky gut.
Inflammation is from this. Inflammation is this. Yes, it could be from those things, but like what about just- But how did we get there? Yeah. What about just like the way that you operate on a day-to-day basis? And like it's hard to look at those things. And so I think one of the biggest things with that is just literally the baby steps.
Like baby steps. You don't have to jump into the deep end. Like you can literally start in a very simple way and just start creating awareness. 'Cause for me, I wasn't aware. I'm like, oh, I'm not like that. People are like, "Oh, you're type A." I'm like, "No, I'm not. What are you talking about?" And so it was like I had just shoved all that inside and was like, " I'm fine.
I'm good. I don't, I'm not like that," yeah. There's always like a checks and balance with the body. It's like chronic stress... [00:40:00] So I was talking about vasodilation or the widening of fluid pipes by stimulating relaxation. It's the other side of the coin. When we're feeling guarded, we're not feeling safe, and we're, our body is just going through the motions and we're like living in la-la land.
We're not even in our physical bodies paying attention to what's actually here and who we are and that felt sensation because it can be quite uncomfortable to live in our body if it wasn't always a safe place for us. So that was the case with me and and I have a lot of health issues that I've overcome and am still overcoming.
I'm still healing, baby. Yeah. But that vasoconstriction, right? It's whenever we're trying to control our life- It will manifest as a clench. And that clench is both internal, so we can be internally bound by that vasoconstriction, which is the narrowing of fluid pipes, and the slow of flow, and the densification of tissue as we're, like, physically bracing [00:41:00] through life.
It's like holding a volleyball underwater and just trying to keep it there, and that takes so much more effort than okay, just letting it pop up and fly and hit you right in the face. It's always easier said than done. Again, just going back to we all have the same hours in the day, you guys.
We have to be compassionate, like fiercely compassionate with ourselves because it's a constant struggle to deprogram the concept of I have to be doing something in order to be worthy of my time and attention. So we can be doing too much for ourselves and be stressing ourselves out or not giving ourselves the time of day because we're too busy caring for everyone else and making sure everyone else is okay Yes.
Well said. It's hard to heal, right? Yeah. Hard to heal in that environment. Yeah. We've talked, we've [00:42:00] touched on some of these topics in this podcast already, and I talk about this, and, I think that Just what you said, like the slowing down to be able to feel your own body, to feel some of the things you're feeling, and sometimes that might be a little bit painful.
And so I don't think we're saying that you have to just rip off the entire Band-Aid all at once, but just start to pay attention, start to be aware. Are you tight? Are you tense? Because that's gonna shut down your lymphatic flow, right? Oh, yeah. I don't know if you read the last book in our book club, Lose Your Mind by Josh Paez.
No. He shares a really great technique that I wanna share with you guys. So it's called I'm Back. And so this tool, I use it all the time. It's so simple and helpful. I'm Back is basically any time that you catch yourself lost in thought or spiraling in thought, and you just have a moment where you're like, "Oh, my God," "what am I doing?
I was [00:43:00] just folding laundry like a maniac." And you just say, you can even say it out loud or you can say it in your mind of just "I'm back," and then you're back to the present moment. And what that looks like is taking a breath, taking a few breaths, and just feeling your breath enter your body, feeling the parts of your body that are moving, the sides of your ribcage, the front of your ribcage, the back of your ribcage.
Feeling air coming and going, that wave-like property of... It's a... Our breath is a very transient organ like, where does it come from? Where does it go? You just bring your awareness to your breath. You can also orientate in your space, so looking around at different textures and different things in your space, maybe picking out every square object or every green object.
Looking at colors and shapes and textures. And then also listening for any sounds that might be around you, whether it's inside or outside of the space that you're in. And this is just a good way to [00:44:00] orient your nervous system to the present moment and communicate to your brain like, "Hey," "we're safe in this moment.
There's no tiger present." And I encourage you to use that I'm Back, and also read the book, Lose Your Mind. It's really good. But yeah, I use it all the time. I love that. I'm back. So easy to get out of the moment, the present moment, and, you're thinking about your list, you're thinking about the appointments coming up, you're thinking about all the things, right?
And so that... And it's so simple, right? It's just "I'm back. I'm here. I'm good." Yeah. Yeah. And you'll... It'll surprise you how many times you do it. So it's if you do it every time that you actually- catch yourself doing it- ... you'll do it like 100 times a day. Wow. Until you don't.
Until you're actually rewiring your nervous system for more presence in your own life, and that trickles down into everything. Absolutely. So simple technique, life-changing technique. [00:45:00] I love that. I wanna talk about the Lymph Love Club and- Oh ... what that is all about because this is really how I met you.
I heard you on another podcast and it was brought up in that podcast, and I was like, "I need to check this out." And as soon as I looked at the information online, I was like, "Yes, this is what I need to do." This is, three or three months ago or so during my, hip... I had made a lot of progress on my hip, but I was still s- struggling.
And so can you just explain to us what that is and how people would benefit from it? Absolutely. I actually struggle to define what the Lymph Love Club is sometimes, but I think one of the easiest ways to describe it is that it's a global self-care community. So I, I'm doing body work, hands-on working with clients.
I have some really great therapists that work with me here in Austin. But I think the relationship that I had with my clients during COVID was I just wasn't [00:46:00] able to see them, and so I started making videos online. And I didn't know that was gonna open up this portal of Lymph Love worldwide.
But I guess it really resonated with people, and I was able to reach people all over the world, and so I just decided, I was like, I just really want to help people the way that I'm helping my clients, but I guess I, I can't really work on them, so what is the thing that is scalable? And by scalable, I just mean that that somebody in France can do tomorrow.
Yeah. Love it. And the Lymph Love Club is, it's just like an online platform, like I use like a third-party software. It looks like Facebook or, any other social media platform that you're logging into. And we meet twice a week. We do a little morning flow on Wednesday mornings.
On Saturdays, we expand into more specific topics. But it's pretty much like everything that relates to- understanding our anatomy and embodying our anatomy, embodying our bodies so that we can move [00:47:00] better. Because the better we can move, the better we can drain lymphatic fluid. And then it is also manual techniques, so it's like m- manually moving the fluid with your hands.
Using our hands is gonna be the most common thing that we do. No equipment is ideal because I want it to be accessible for everyone. But we also do use tools. We use therapy balls tissue scrapers, gua sha stone suction cups. We just did a facial cupping class the other day.
We have a book club. It's basically, like, all things lymph, fascia, and nervous system. But again, just so hard to define because it's like- I created it, but I'm not creating... i'm co-creating it with everybody that's in there. So it's like we're making something together, and that's what's cool about community, right?
It's like feeling seen and supported and I just, I've... We've been open for two years and I have-- I didn't realize when I opened it that it was for me because it was what I needed and it's made me more [00:48:00] consistent. It's helped me become a better participant in my own life, in my own self-care, and I wasn't really e- expecting that,
I was just thinking about other people "Let me just do this for them," and then the universe was like, "This is the medicine that you need." So- Yeah ... it's been cool. You're definitely a born teacher or a learned teacher, however you want to, explain it. And I would just say that it is that community that you described and also just, if you have a specific question you can post your question there or about a video or anything, and Leah's there to help you and support you.
So it's- Yes ... and the book club is fun. Yeah. Join in. Very fun. So we'll obviously have the link for that to your Instagram. You have tons and tons of videos. I would just say that my favorite videos are the little talking head on the body parts. I just- Excellent. Those are my favorite to make, so that's good.
I'm [00:49:00] glad you like them. I show them to my kids all the time. I'm like, "How do you do this?" Because I don't understand the tech thing. But they just are like, "Oh my gosh, that's so dorky." I'm like, "Yeah, but it's really awesome." I'm very much a nerd, like a body nerd. I'm always learning and just I think we need that curiosity and that playfulness, because these health conditions and illness and not feeling good in our body is...
It can be really heavy. It can be really hard, and there's plenty of information out there that's more focused on the negative or the fear aspect in order to sell something. And so I just knew that I wanted it to be hopeful- And inspiring, and I hope to continue to share that message.
Oh, it definitely is. It's super fun. I love those videos. Your handle on Instagram is Lymph Love Club. On YouTube you have lots of great videos and some shorts on there. There is you I know you have at least one video of you doing the big [00:50:00] six. So if you wanna watch that visually you can do that.
Also Googling it, but I would just go to L- Leah's YouTube. She has lots of great YouTube videos to help guide you. And just remember, you could start really small just in the very beginning. Yeah, 'cause if you experience some detox symptoms, it might scare you away. But don't let it scare you away 'cause it's one of those things that it's just to inform you about what you do next.
So if you have a- And it's- ... intense reaction, a little bit less next time. Ease in. Yeah. Yeah, if you ease into it, I think that's probably not gonna happen as often. But- Yeah ... if you just start it in the morning, I like to start everything in the morning. I think the way you start your day is the way you live your day, and you can handle things a lot better if you just have a really good start, and it doesn't mean an hour-long routine.
It can be very simple like we described earlier. Thank you again, Leah, for being here. I just can't thank you enough. [00:51:00] It's been super fun conversation. And until next time. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.
What I hope you take away from this conversation is that supporting your lymphatic system doesn't have to be complicated or expensive. Movement, real everyday movement, not just at the gym, is medicine. And start your morning with something as simple as the big six and a glass of water can genuinely change how your body feels throughout the day.
This is exactly why I keep coming back to the foundations: digestion, movement, nervous system regulation. It's all giving your body what it actually needs to clear and heal. The lymphatic system is the thread that runs through all of it.
If you want to learn more from Leah, you can find her on Instagram and YouTube at Lymph Love Club. And if you wanna go deeper with her community, check out the Lymph Love Club. It's a global online self-care community where she teaches lymphatic, fascia, nervous system tools [00:52:00] twice a week. The link will be in the show notes.
And if this episode opened your eyes to how connected your body systems really are, I'd love for you to take my health foundations assessment. It's a great starting point to see where your body might need the most support right now.
You can find that link in the show notes as well. As always, your body isn't broken. It just needs the right support in the right order. I'll see you next
The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and should not be considered medical advice. I am not a medical doctor, and this content is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Please consult with a qualified healthcare professional before making any decisions related to your health, especially if you have a medical condition or are taking medications
